Israelis held hostage in Gaza - part 3

[StarbucksSmarterSister]

Part 3.

I hope they come home soon and there's no need for a part 4.

It isn't about what Hamas say or do for me. From the start Israel have been clear with their genocidal rhetoric, I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed.We are fighting human animals. They are following through. They have all but closed all healthcare, they are starving people to death.

They told us what they intended to do and they are doing it, I can see that they are doing it, I don't need 'Hamas propaganda'. Human rights organisations, the UN are all telling us what Israel are doing and I don't buy that they are all just anti Israel and it is a big conspiracy against them. I don't understand why I am expected to suddenly not trust all of these experts that are telling us what Israel are doing? Every day I turn on the radio and Drs from my country that have been working in Gaza and have seen first hand what is happening, respected charity workers and human rights experts all telling me what Israel are doing but I'm supposed to not believe them? That this is all part of some Hamas propaganda machine? I don't understand why suddenly all of these people who we trust to tell us the truth would all by lying. If a myriad of experts tell me that Israel are attempting genocide, they tell me that Israel are denying food and aid and healthcare to ordinary people, they tell me people are starving, people aren't able to access healthcare or medication, why shouldn't I believe them over Israel who obviously have more reason to lie than they do?

150 days today 💔

I feel like you're forgetting why Israel is doing what it's doing. They still don't even know for sure how many hostages there are! And I don't mean dead or alive - I mean there is still one person missing. They don't know if she is a hostage or was murdered. There has been no trace of her. Five months and they still don't even know, because that's how grotesque Hamas and their supporters are.

Half the stuff you're writing though, you're writing because you're believing propaganda. You're only seeing the experts you want to see. You're not seeing the ones who go against you're ready-formed opinion. And you seem happy with that, so I'm not sure what else there is to say, really.

Hamas have won the propaganda war and no one gives a shit 🤷🏻‍♀️

So, Kamala Harris
Save the Children
Action Aid
World Food Programme
UNICEF

are all 'Hamas propagandists' in your opinion?

Massive propaganda war for sure with two equally abhorrent parties to that war - the hostages and people of Palestine are just pawns in this fight

I don't understand why my national broadcaster would only have propaganda merchants on their radio shows? The people I hear are on my drive home from work on a radio station that is our equivalent to the BBC.

I feel like you're forgetting why Israel is doing what it's doing.

I personally don't believe that there can ever be a reason to starve people to death and deny them lifesaving healthcare, I can't think of anything that would make me think that that is OK. I find it concerning that people would think that others would have to be brainwashed to share my beliefs.

Having said that, this thread just popped up on active didn't realise it was a hostage thread so I will bow out.

@Humdingerydoo you haven't listened to a word @SpryAmberSeal has said.

You're telling me the footage of injured Palestinians and dead bodies that is coming out of Gaza is Hamas propaganda?

The words of genocidal rhetoric coming out of the mouths of the Israeli government is Hamas propaganda?

The IDF tanks that have run over Palestinians are Hamas propaganda?

The IDF shooting and killing hundreds in the flour massacre is Hamas Propaganda?

@Humdingerydoo
There is propaganda at play and it is on the Israeli side with what they are feeding the Israeli population. I think you forget that a lot of the information we are getting is not through Hamas media machines as has been pointed out. We are hearing the doctors on the ground volunteering with Médecins Sans Frontières and their accounts of what is going on, we are listening to the politicians and aid workers that have been given access to Gaza to asses what has been going on. The Israeli government and IDF have proved time and again that they are untrustworthy and quite frankly liars, if you choose to believe what they are telling you that is your choice but don't accuse the rest of us of believing Hamas propaganda when we ae getting our news and information from a variety of reliable sources. Do you never ask yourself why there is two versions of everything - one from the IDF and one from everyone else and wonder why that is?

The level of destruction in Gaza can be verified by aerial photographs.

I quite clearly said half the stuff not everything but as per usual there is selective reading followed by a pile-on .

Because of this selective reading, everyone ignores the times I've condoned Israel's actions and words. The times I've said Netanyahu is an utter disgrace. The times I've said that no one should be starved. Because no one actually wants to hear me say that. Because people take issue with the fact that I care about the hostages more than they do. That I see the hostages as sort of key to this whole thing as one thing is guaranteed - without the return of the hostages there will definitely be no end to the war. Without regular hostage-takers being eliminated (this is, of course, by no means the first time Hamas have taken hostages) this war will be repeated over and over again. Instead, you want me to say it's a genocide. And I won't. Because at the moment, I don't believe it is. And apparently that's not ok for me to think because your chosen experts have said it is. Well, my chosen experts haven't. Innocent until proven guilty doesn't seem to apply when it comes to Israel. We've seen it time and time again - horrendous accusations and no one waiting to actually find out the full story. Because it doesn't matter. And that is the propaganda war Hamas are winning. I know you all think Israel always lies. Again, that's the propaganda war Hamas are winning. They've got you convinced Israel lie 100% of the time. It's utter madness.

And I of course know that next you'll all be saying something about how even if all the hostages were returned there would still be a war "because Netanyahu", ignoring the fact that the chance of the war ending is still increased. That's a chance a lot of us would be willing to take as I would consider it a win-win - no more hostages and a chance of no war is surely better than hostages and a definite war? Unless it's not an end to the war people are after, of course.

I know you all consider Israel the sole bad guy and therefore the ones who should do all the compromising but that's just not going to happen. I hope you realise how utterly insane it is that none of you are actively pushing for the hostages to be released, or at least be allowed to be checked on. I hope you realise that we all notice your lack of fighting for the release of the hostages and that you don't even seem to think Israel should be entitled to know how many there still are, dead or alive.

You do you. I don't care what you believe. I was objecting to the idea that people who believe differently to you and who listen to human rights organisations and professionals on the ground in Gaza saying that what is happening is genocide are just deluded by Hamas propaganda. You appeared to be the one dismissing anyone who thinks differently than you do.

You will find the majority of people (in the UK at least) agree with the you. Both sides use propaganda (DOH!). Just because voices are loud and persistent it doesn't mean they are right or the majority.
Hostages coming home would ease the situation but hamas don't want that, they want martyrs and condemnation of Israel.

I would like to see the hostages come home, because they shouldn’t be there in the first place, and they are victims, just like all the Palestinians who have been wrongly incarcerated and all the people in Gaza who are suffering for something they don’t do.

I have just read on Times of Israel that Sinwar has been unreachable for a week. Is he even still alive?
I won't comment on the other points of discussion but in regards to the actual topic of the thread I do hope that there would be a greater chance of the war ending due to international pressure once the hostages are released, saying that Netanyahu has repeated 'total victory' so many times that i dont think that ending the war is on the cards for him regardless.
At the absolute minium, Hamas needs to atleast give the names of the hostages that are still alive and its a disgrace that they won't even do that.
For the sake of all involved on both sides I hope a deal can be reached very soon

This is just it - if the hostages were released and Netanyahu still wanted to keep the war going, he'd lose all support. I sure as hell wouldn't be supporting his actions, just like I don't support illegal settlements in the West Bank etc. He'd have infinitely more pressure on him from all sides to end the war. This is why I don't get why some people are adamant the war won't end even if the hostages are returned. I mean, the only reason he has any kind of backing in Israel at the moment is because people want the hostages returned. Once they're back, he's out. If the hostages are returned there's no more keeping him in power. Surely that's a win-win-win all around?! No more hostages, no more war and no more Netanyahu.

(I of course realise I've now opened myself up to comments from various posters about how this war is only happening because Netanyahu wants to stay in power and that he's the only actual problem. So I hope people realise how stupid they'll sound if they say that as obviously he's only one half of the problem with the other half being the terrorists who purposely and willingly initiated this war. )

Bring the hostages home

@Humdingerydoo but ending the war after the hostages were released would leave 4 Hamas battalions in Rafah

Wouldn't that be a bit of a risk for Israels future security?

There wouldn't need to be a full-scale war to deal with them.

'Dealing with them' would be continuing the war by another name

Don't you see the contra-diction there?

There doesn’t need to be a full scale war right now either, but that didn’t stop it happening.

@Humdingerydoo I think he would lose some support but not enough to end the war as the goals of the war according to him would not be achieved. However, it would be a start.
It's been clear this time that Netanyahu is not bowing down to pressure, not even from the US. He doesn't have much to lose and prolonging the war is in his own best interests, once the war ends, as you say he is out.
Although as I have said before, regardless of everything else, hostages should be released unconditionally, whether that signals the end of the war or not, likewise with allowing in sufficient aid.

No, dealing with them could be through negotiations. It could be through third parties who are sent to figure out a sustainable way forward. It could be through Fatah acknowledging that Hamas need to go and strip them of all their power and close all their bank accounts. There could be elections where Hamas could be replaced by someone less murderous. There could be some kind of third party guarding the Gaza boarder ensuring both the safety of Palestinians in Gaza and the Israelis who live nearby

Lots of options available that don't involve any kind of war.

I am not sure if anyone has posted this and I missed it. It is well worth reading this first hand account of this former hostage, Chen Almighty-Goldstein.

The last paragraph ( my bolding)
She is now desperate for the remaining hostages to return home, but added: “Having experienced how horrendous the fighting and bombardment was, I can’t really understand how you can both have that and care for the captives that are there.”

www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/03/we-were-constantly-in-terror-israeli-hostage-tells-of-captivity-in-gaza

I never wrote ‘Almighty’ that was auto-correct. My sincere apologies. It is Almog.

“Every encounter with captives in Gaza was truly exciting,” said Almog-Goldstein. “But three of the women were wounded, some had complex injuries, and some spoke about sexual assaults.”

And her husband and daughter were shot in the face in front of them.

I don't think that article is the Gotcha moment you think it is. I imagine she would have been more terrified thinking no one was bothering to come for them.

@EllaDisenchanted I can't believe it's been that long :(