Israelis held hostage in Gaza - part 3

[StarbucksSmarterSister]

Part 3.

I hope they come home soon and there's no need for a part 4.

What do you think they want terrorists released for? It's not so they can have a nice little picnic together. It's to enable them to continue their attacks on Israel in the future.

Gilad Shalit got them Yahya Sinwar. It isn't exactly a longshot to think they're hoping for an equally horrific terrorist this time around seeing as they have so much more leverage now than last time ie more hostages.

BTW the source for the list is Lebanese Al-Akhbar newspaper, which is often used as a mouthpiece promoting the interests of Hamas and Hezbollah. So if it's wrong, they have misread the proposal.

Oh I see we have another round of sympathy for terror

They're not monsters- they're just naughty boys

Amazing

Who have you spoken to? It’s in the news that a lot of the former hostages, their families and the families of hostages both dead and presumed alive are raging at Nethanyu? Are they “no one in Israel” or no one that matters?

Of course the families want them back. If you watch today's press conference you will see that ( I posted linked earlier).

But, much as I loathe Netanyahu he has to weigh up the lives of (maximum now it seems) 80 people versus who knows how many future victims of terrorism. The Shalit deal got Sinwar released and his thank you was 7th October. Israel can't go through this again.

As Sharon Lipschitz pointed out at that press conference earlier her mother was released early on humanitarian grounds and Hamas could at least release the sick and the elderly on those same grounds now.

They don't even need to form part of a deal but Hamas will not do that. Nor will they even confirm proof of life for those that are left. They could easily do to at least show willing but instead they produce vile mocking videos and then kill some of the people in them

It was me that used the word monster. I never meant they were less than human, their humanity is what makes their inhuman acts seem that much worse to me. I'm a bit surprised it has caused so much bad feeling, it's not an uncommon usage of the word. Second definition that pops up on google

Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

mon·ster
/ˈmänstər/

noun
noun: monster; plural noun: monsters

1. an imaginary creature that is typically large, ugly, and frightening.
2. an inhumanly cruel or wicked person.

• "he was an unfeeling, treacherous monster"

1. OFTEN HUMOROUS

• a person, typically a child, who is rude or badly behaved.
• "Christopher is only a year old, but already he is a little monster"

1. a thing or animal that is excessively or dauntingly large.

• "this is a monster of a book, almost 2,000 pages"

1. a congenitally malformed or mutant animal or plant.

verbINFORMAL•BRITISH verb: monster; 3rd person present: monsters; past tense: monstered; past participle: monstered; gerund or present participle: monstering

1. criticize or reprimand severely.
2. "my mother used to monster me for coming home so late"

The men that I referred to as monsters I mentioned earlier in the thread, they planned some of the worst atrocities. These are not new events for me, I vividly remember the Sbarro bombing (I was early teens) and some of the other suicide bombings and attacks during the intifada, and can easily recall the feelings of that period. These were traumatic events for Jews around the world, and we kids felt some of that too. These men are the masterminds behind these attacks. It feels important to me to separate these men and Hamas in my head from the Palestinian people, and not lump them all together.

Just a reminder they also hold hostage several bodies, either of hostages who were for some reason killed on the way into Gaza or whose bodies were taken as a trophy.

One such person was Shani Louk, it would have been her birthday today.

Who have you spoken to? It’s in the news that a lot of the former hostages, their families and the families of hostages both dead and presumed alive are raging at Nethanyu? Are they “no one in Israel” or no one that matters?

@SummerFeverVenice that's twisting my words. You need a list of family and friends I have spoken to?
I am more than aware of what the hostages families would like thank you. But again, slowly, the people I have spoken to do not want the prisons opened and see it as counter productive.
Also you do realise to quote I actually have to have said the words. Hmmmm.

Monsters that's who.....they are not deserving of humanity.

No surprises from Netanyahu yesterday but there;s this ?maybe suggests that some kind of negotiations are continuing

''A Hamas delegation, headed by senior Hamas official Khalil Al-Hayya, will travel to Cairo on Thursday to pursue ceasefire talks with Egypt and Qatar, a Hamas official has said.''

Guardian

Monsters indeed. Born human but now they are monsters. We do not dehumanise them, the choices they made have dehumanised them.

@EllaDisenchanted I appreciate that you clearly articulate your points in a non inflammatory and respectful way. You heard what I said and responded to those points, it did not feel like an attack. I was not referring to you when I mentioned people being unkind, enjoying getting worked up, or coming across as a mob.
It is good to know that you don’t lump a whole group of people together in one category.

Above now confirmed as a 'new round of negotiations'

5 months now

https://www.israelhayom.com/2024/02/08/kibbutz-beeri-confirms-mani-godard-was-killed-oct-7-body-held-by-hamas/

Manny Godard (73) was reported to have been murdered, but his body had not been found. Now his body is confirmed to be held in Gaza. From other reports I have seen, he was shot on October 7th, and his wife Ayelet messaged to say he had died in her arms, (she was later murdered too), but his body was missing.

@StarbucksSmarterSister
“I'm sure everyone would be happy to see those held on genuinely minor charges released in exchange for the hostages”

Yes, there are literally thousands of these detainees/prisoners. I also think limiting it to minor or no charges should be part of the counter offer if we are to save as many hostages as we can that are still alive. The 36 estimated to have been killed in the war to date, are the victims of a lack of a ceasefire.

IHRFT but this is now coming to pass...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/06/optimism-fades-over-gaza-ceasefire-amid-rumoured-split-in-hamas-leadership

but as if there weren't enough problems, we have this - https://www.timesofisrael.com/abbas-succession-battle-could-collapse-palestinian-authority-think-tank-says/

@SummerFeverVenice I disagree with that last statement. I have read that almost all of the 34 where either killed on the day and taken back or have been taken before.

They are victims of being taken hostage.

That's my understanding too @stomachamaleon - these people have been identified by a team of experts examining Hamas footage from 7/10 for people with un-survivable injuries

@EllaDisenchanted I just wonder about Hersch. His mum is still posting.

Happy Yom HaMishpaha

No. All are victims of terrorism

@stomachamaleon
”I have read that almost all of the 34 where either killed on the day and taken back or have been taken before. They are victims of being taken hostage.”

Where have you read this? Curious because I can’t find any paper saying that there is evidence Hamas took back dozens of dead bodies into Gaza. 🤨

Arguing they are victims of being taken hostage/terrorism is a bit chicken and egg. Yes they were taken hostage alive, and then due to a lack of a ceasefire(which is a failure of everyone at the table) many of them have been killed by IDF tank shells and airstrikes. There is even an IDF probe into the killing of 12 Israeli hostages, including children, on Oct 7th because an IDF commander ordered a tank to shell a home in kibbutz Be’eri even though he knew it would result in their deaths.

It is the opinion of many Israelis that Nethanyu did not have to have a military policy of sacrificing the hostages. He chose this policy. He is not without some portion of the responsibility for the hostages dying and continuing to die. (See links for support for the above)
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-02-09/ty-article/.premium/netanyahus-clear-message-to-israelis-abandoning-the-hostages-is-in-the-national-interest/0000018d-8a8b-d443-a19f-fe9baf840000

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-02-07/ty-article/.premium/netanyahu-sacrificed-the-israeli-hostages-in-gaza-for-empty-slogans-and-political-gain/0000018d-8047-d636-adef-ceef8b310000

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/idf-probably-accidentally-killed-hostage-yossi-sharabi/ar-BB1i2eFp

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-military-opens-probe-into-reports-oct-7-friendly-fire-deaths-2024-02-06/

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-02-06/ty-article/.premium/idf-probing-death-of-12-hostages-in-beeri-house-shelled-on-orders-of-senior-officer/0000018d-7b6c-d008-a9cd-fbfdb0040000

SummerFeverVenice

Yes they were taken hostage alive

They certainly all were not.

Several were definitely taken to Gaza when they were already dead. I myself know of the following

Asaf Hamami, IDF - killed defending Kibbutz Harim and his body taken to Gaza (survivor accounts)

Shani Louk - killed at festival and taken to Gaza -( video of her body on pickup truck clearly shows she was dead but part of her skull was found at the festival site)

Joshua Mollel - his kidnap then his murder at the roadside and partly dressed body taken to Gaza on a pick up truck was all captured on Hamas bodycam footage.

I have also seen body cam footage taken back in Gaza on the 7th of an elderly Israeli whose half naked body was being stamped on in the street by Palestinians and an IDF soldier's headless body being stomped on in the street.

I'm sure if I searched I could find other examples as well.

The barbarity of 7 October appears to be boundless.

BTW they've admitted Yossi Sharabi was killed when they bombed a Hamas position close to where he was being held.

@SummerFeverVenice I am not the only person to have stated this. It was well documented during the week. Did you miss the article with the gentleman who had to retrieve his sons head?

That's your opinion and I am entitled to mine. Hamas could at any point returned the hostages taken. Blaming Israel and saying 'many have been killed by shells'.... how many? We only have Hamas' word for it. They may have butchered them all. We are not aware because they won't allow anyone in to check on them.

The view of many Israelis? Know many do you? I don't doubt that Netanyahu and his government did not have a plan for what happened or how to negotiate with terrorists. It's never gone well when they have tried before. When I look at Hersch's mum (arm
Blown off saving friends) or the Bibas family terrified being herded onto a truck how could there have been a plan for that?

Pass the buck if it makes you feel Better though.

The context of that sentence was about the 34 hostages that were not previously identified as deceased until just this week. You have listed 3 hostages that were determined to be deceased months ago and are not among those 34 currently under discussion.

Any evidence that dozens of dead Israeli bodies have been taken into Gaza by Hamas?

Yes, I posted a link on Yossi.