Israelis held hostage in Gaza - part 3

[StarbucksSmarterSister]

Part 3.

I hope they come home soon and there's no need for a part 4.

Hamas' demands in full. The audacity is gobsmacking, they knew it would be rejected. It's a long list.

https://twitter.com/GatorNanaJag/status/1755229537334354293?t=azyld7ElIqn9q1eG1VysYQ&s=19

Omg that list! Give us everything, release our terrorists and leave your borders open so that we can keep attacking you as much as we want.

No I did not. Please point out exactly what I said that makes you think I was sympathising with terrorists?

I’m not upset, but if I did want to get upset by your unkind and over the top behaviour then that would be OK.

@PeasfullPerson why are you intent on derailing? We get it.

Like Elsa said 'let it go'.

Give us everything and open all crossings without restriction! Weekly suicide bombings here we come.

I’m happy to keep responding to any slanderous comments that are made against me.

The cold never bothered me anyway.

"Also, they are not monsters, they are people that have done terrible things which seem alien, because most of us could never conceive of it."

Saying they're not monsters would be one example of you showing them (misplaced) sympathy.

When was I unkind to you? Again with the inaccurate statements.

@SomeCatFromJapan it's 1200 times no.

Opening up prisons and releasing prisoners on par with the Shalit deal is not being seen as ok from anyone I have spoken to in Israel. They have seen all to well the consequences of that type of action.

Allowing Hamas to stay in power is non negotiable. They cannot afford to have another Taliban situation. They cannot be allowed and committed to repeating 7/10 again and again and again. Not after so many citizens and soldiers have died. Plus with Hezbollah, Iran, Syria and Houthis chomping at the bit to destroy Israel.

I watched footage Today of Hezbollah sending anti tank missiles and destroying houses. 80,000 displaced on the border. Not touchable by iron dome. Too precise and too close. That will be terrifying. No collective hand-wringing for that? No marches asking them to stop?

War looks closer than ever.

Also, they are not monsters, they are people that have done terrible things which seem alien, because most of us could never conceive of it.

If that's not sympathy I don't know what is. So the appalling things they did just "seem" alien because we would never do them? You might as well have said the poor little lambs are just misunderstood.

So it doesn't include Naama and the girl soldiers? But they want thousands of Pal prisoners, plus the worst ones. My bold below

3. The release of all Israeli abductees under the age of 19 (who are not soldiers) as well as the elderly and the sick whose names were previously agreed upon (referring to the hudna agreement of the month of November -AA) in exchange for the release of all the Palestinian prisoners imprisoned in Israel who are younger than 19 or older than 50, as well as the sick among them, in addition to 1,500 Palestinian prisoners named by Hamas, of which 500 are serving life sentences.

I'd tell them to F off too.

And obviously these demands are made without anyone being allowed to check on the hostages to make sure they are even still alive. Yet Israel are the bad guys for saying no to the demands 🤦🏻‍♀️

"Let's compromise! I get everything I want and you might get a few of your hostages back if you're lucky".

Yes, perfectly reasonable.

@Humdingerydoo

No. That is me not liking the word monster being applied to human beings. I find it dehumanising. Once you start applying that label to people it enables you to discarded their human rights. That sort of thinking probably plays a part in the thinking that leads to terrorism. I am against dehumanising people, full stop. And I do believe it is comforting to think of people that commit those sorts of things as being less than human. I did say I wish I hadn’t mentioned it when it was such a raw and sensitive subject.

You must have already put me in some sort of truly terrible category because you commented this on my first post, when it was actually not my intention……

‘It's truly impressive how you have even managed to twist this into something that's actually Israel's fault.‘

You then made a number of patronising comments such as…..

‘That's not how life works and it's definitely not how the internet works.’

‘There was no need for you to add any of the second half of your paragraph. Completely unnecessary’

‘It’s not a great look.’

I found the exchange to be unnecessarily unpleasant. Though I would say you are not the most unpleasant person on this board.

We should be able to have opposing views without putting people into categories and patronising them.

This board at times comes across as being a bit of a mob, with people talking about the ‘idiocy’ and ‘needing wine’, and ‘OMG’ and I think that is a shame, and that it is doing a disservice to the hostages.

@stomachamaleon
Opening up prisons and releasing prisoners on par with the Shalit deal is not being seen as ok from anyone I have spoken to in Israel.

Who have you spoken to? It’s in the news that a lot of the former hostages, their families and the families of hostages both dead and presumed alive are raging at Nethanyu? Are they “no one in Israel” or no one that matters?
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-02-07/ty-article/.premium/netanyahu-sacrificed-the-israeli-hostages-in-gaza-for-empty-slogans-and-political-gain/0000018d-8047-d636-adef-ceef8b310000

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-02-07/ty-article/netanyahu-slams-hamas-demands-as-freed-israeli-hostages-plea-him-to-avoid-moral-stain/0000018d-8501-df76-a1fd-cff1a7980000

WTF peaceful objecting to dehumanisation of terrorists isn’t sympathising with terrorists. It’s stating facts- they are still human beings. Yes, we humans are an awful bunch, we do evil atrocities on each other, repeatedly.

Ok well I'm going to keep thinking terrorists are monsters. Because they are. If you want to continue to claim they aren't then just don't be upset when you're called out on it.

None of the examples you provided were of me being unkind. Maybe next time, don't try to sympathise with and be overly understanding towards the perpetrators of heinous crimes on a thread about their victims. That way, you are less likely to get stuck in what you consider to be unpleasant exchanges.

What's this we business? Most people could probably barely kill someone in self defence never mind torturing families in cold blood.

I dont want to understand, I want them dead or locked up till they are.

Honestly can't believe what I'm reading on here, but I suppose it was inevitable we'd get to this stage.

? Hamas has moved a bit. What they originally wanted was no release of any hostages until after complete, permanent ceasefire and withdrawal of IDF from Gaza.

Now they have offered a 3 phase plan, each phase being 45 days long with hostage release in exchange for humanitarian pause to get more aid in abs release of prisoners/detainees and if all goes well, then in 120 days there might be a permanent ceasefire.

So clearly, this latest offer isn’t “everything” they want.
Btw, phase 1 includes all females whether soldiers or not. The OP’s link to the tweet- the tweet isn’t accurate.

They want terrorists released plus the border open. That is not a serious proposal.

Oh, see I was talking about what Hamas have actually wanted all along, not what they've pretended to want. They don't care about their people, they don't care about their land. They are after specific terrorists who are in Israeli jails for various attrocities. That's why they took hostages in the first place, to swap them for their little terrorist friends. It worked well for them when it came to Gilad Shalit, so they thought they'd try it again.

It is a proposal that can be worked on, negotiated further. The fact Hamas has compromised a bit means they are willing to give a bit more.

Israel could refuse to release prisoners serving life sentences for example.
Not all the prisoners/detainees are terrorists. Quite a few are held without charge for years even. Hundreds are children.

Nethanyu didn’t need to reject the proposal out of hand so harshly. The USA President Biden even said it was “a little over the top” meaning, it wasn’t far off a good compromise in their opinion.

Otherwise there won’t be any hostages left to save.

Didn’t you say Hamas actually wants to commit genocide on Israel? What made you change your mind? How do you come by such deep insight into the minds of Hamas?

@Humdingerydoo The penny has just dropped for me. All the death and destruction, just to get their nasty little pals back and if that costs tens of thousands of lives, that's a price they are quite willing to pay.

Didn’t you say Hamas actually wants to commit genocide on Israel?

Why do you think they want them back? To have afternoon tea?

Israel could refuse to release prisoners serving life sentences for example.
Not all the prisoners/detainees are terrorists. Quite a few are held without charge for years even. Hundreds are children.

The whole point for Hamas is to get the lifers out. And btw the children are very often teenagers who've stabbed people. They should be locked up, even if they're 14. Its sounds like you'd release them so they could do it again. Even the "stone throwers" often aren't throwing stones but bloody great big rocks that have killed people.

I'm sure everyone would be happy to see those held on genuinely minor charges released in exchange for the hostages