Has anyone changed their mind from what they have read on here?

[mollyfolk]

we’ve argued a lot. We’ve backed up our arguments with lots of proof. Has anyone changed their mind or viewpoint - I’m just interested?

it would be lovely if we didn’t argue here and just let everyone state their views.

I’ve spent most of my life in Ireland, where you’d be hard pressed, in the present day, to meet someone who doesn’t agree that the Israeli authorities treat Palestinian’s terribly. It wouldn’t be controversial here to say - isn’t it awful what’s happening in Gaza - in any situation whether when I lived in the UK it was a lot more controversial and wouldn’t be a suitable thing to mention in work for example.

I haven’t changed my mind but I’m a lot more educated about anti semitism and have more understanding of the viewpoint of people who support the Israeli government.

Have always been pro two state solution and anti Netanyahu and his band of right wing extremists.

One thing I HAVE changed my mind about however is Keir Starmer. Absolutely shameful and weak. Lost my vote.

Are you seriously accusing people on here of being pro Hamas ?

Not necessarily on this thread but there are absolutely pro-Hamas posters on MN.

You dont think there could be any change a young Israeli (or any age really) that's terrified of hamas, could have made a wrong judgment in a split second?
I mean, at least it's been admitted to and apologised for, unlike when hamas blew up its own hospital carpark and told the world it was the idf.
The world needs rid of hamas, and palastine needs rid of hamas before anything can get better.

@miniegg3 I think it's generally thought to have been PIJ whose rocket misfire resulted in the al-Ahli explosion.

Quite simply because they don’t. Why would they ? Most people have a massive problem with Netanyahu and the IDF, the violent settlers. You have your back up and say people hate the Jews, I would never consider any Jewish people around the world to be hateful, unless they give me cause like any other person from anywhere.
I do consider the people I mentioned above to be hateful, they are vile, but to say people hate Jews because they hate what Israel is doing is abhorrent and most normal people would agree. How dare you accuse people in such a sweeping statement.

@miniegg3 at what cost to Palestinian lives and homes? Is there anywhere a line is drawn? We are close to 20 thousand deaths right now so where do we stop? 30k? 40k? When does the world say ok it's getting out of hand now?

This !

I agree, it’s sickening.

I don't know. There have been over half a million deaths since the start of the war in Syria, and it's still ongoing. It would be nice if hamas admitted defeat and put an end to it now for civilians sake.

And the IDF have had no hand whatsoever in the 20k deaths? Jaw dropping

@miniegg3 shooting unarmed people waving white flags and similar situations has been widely reported in eye-witness accounts. The difference is that this time it turned out the lives the shooter(s) ended were lives their own country and leadership cared about. People in combat zones are often scared, and can have to make horrific choices in a split second. But the accounts of this suggest more to it than a split second reflex or reaction.

It's reported that unarmed, partly unclothed men (so no obvious weapons) came out of a building and were waving white cloth (so being obvious rather than stealthy and showing an internationally recognised symbol of peace/surrender/non-aggression). Those men were shot. It's reported that 2 were killed there, while one managed to get back to the building. The soldiers then heard a cry for help (in Hebrew). When the man came back out, he was shot and killed.

That's not a split second decision. That's not a reaction in fear.

In the eyes of the people defending the actions, the "mistake" seems to have been, not that three lives were taken, but that, as they saw it, the wrong three lives were taken. There wouldn't have been an issue if those three innocent men had been Palestinian or aid workers or doctors. Because that's been happening for a while now and they didn't care.

Those three men endured so much and should have been helped to safety, not killed. May they rest in peace.

Obviously.. what's your point?

For the most part opinions will not change on either side and it appears to be very much an ideological debate rather than one where people are prepared to at least listen to the other side or one which is based on facts.

This is a worrying trend in Western democracies where counter arguments are met with insults and buzz words (fascist/ communist/ genocide / Nazis/ apartheid etc) with little or no educational knowledge on their true meaning and add nothing to the debate but simply harden views on both sides.

Counter facts are either met with denial or whataboutery. And the concept that if I shout louder than you then that must make me right which is quite infantile in a way.

This of course is applicable to most debates in the West such as "Just stop oil" or the trans debate.

In the case of this conflict it sadly all makes any rational debate impossible and a compromise or peaceful resolution ever more elusive, meaning that the inevitable outcome will be last man standing.

This is grossly libellous

Have you read what he spouts on x ? This was on one of his posts….
I Am A Zionist -I Love Apartheid, Genocide, and the State-Sponsored Crime and Terrorism That Zionist Israel
Stands For.

in his eyes everyone in Gaza is Hamas.

You should ask MN to delete your libellous posts, I will inform David in the morning

Obviously.. what's your point?

I think her point was the IDF should maybe be held accountable for what it does. Shouldn’t be a problem if it’s done nothing wrong.

Glad you mention the hospital. It was Hamas who blew it. Unlike the rest of the hospitals that have been confirmed to be destroyed by Israel and many killed by Israel whilst they were In the hospital

you might accept their apology… bless them they’re so young … if I was a familiar of the hostage I’d want them to pay for what they’ve done. They shouldn’t be in war if they’re not ready to protect the citizens.

On MN, views are completely entrenched, I doubt there is even one person who has changed their opinion of whose side they are on despite the hundreds of posts. It's just the same arguments over and over again.

@whattheactualfrog

You should ask MN to delete your libellous posts, I will inform David in the morning

Yes please do ring David in the morning and tell him someone copied and pasted his rants onto a mums forum. Sure he'll be on the phone to the lawyers instantly!

In answer to the original post - no it hasn't changed my mind. I'm pro Palestinian and always will be. But that doesn't mean I hate Jewish people. I hate what Israel and the IDF are doing.

There used to be a time when being called anti semetic was an incredibly serious accusation and held weight. I have seen people throwing around the statement so easily on these boards that it no longer is and has been diluted.

Mumsnet has not changed my opinion.

It has opened my eyes to the fact that a small number of people who support or at least justify genocide walk among us and that there is literally no atrocity the IDF can commit that would change their minds.

When I started a thread on the babies killed in their incubators and mothers here started to justify it I knew I was dealing with a level of extremism I'd never encountered before.

@Toothyfruity
Yes, it’s very disturbing.

Do you even know why the ‘Naqba’ was called the ‘Great Catastrophe’? I’ll give you a clue - who won the 1948 Arab-Israeli war and who started it?

Arab nations started it.

Israel won it.

Previous to that and at times subsequently Israel has supported a two-state solution.