Has anyone changed their mind from what they have read on here?

[mollyfolk]

we’ve argued a lot. We’ve backed up our arguments with lots of proof. Has anyone changed their mind or viewpoint - I’m just interested?

it would be lovely if we didn’t argue here and just let everyone state their views.

I’ve spent most of my life in Ireland, where you’d be hard pressed, in the present day, to meet someone who doesn’t agree that the Israeli authorities treat Palestinian’s terribly. It wouldn’t be controversial here to say - isn’t it awful what’s happening in Gaza - in any situation whether when I lived in the UK it was a lot more controversial and wouldn’t be a suitable thing to mention in work for example.

I haven’t changed my mind but I’m a lot more educated about anti semitism and have more understanding of the viewpoint of people who support the Israeli government.

When I started a thread on the babies killed in their incubators and mothers here started to justify it I knew I was dealing with a level of extremism I'd never encountered before.

I thought the same when I read posters justifying the unprovoked brutalities committed by Hamas against Israeli and other citizens on October 7.

Yes, and seeing so many self-identified feminists excuse, minimise, repeatedly shout 'allegedly' and outright deny the rape, torture, mutilation and execution of Israeli women has been eye-opening, to say the least.

I agree, it's shocking isn't it.

According to Dr Ghassan who was actually there at the hospital & treated the wounded afterwards. The injuries were not consistent with an accidental misfiring of a Hamas rocket. He believes the attack was caused by the Idf. He was also one of the first to see white phosphorus burns, when there was total denial of its usage by the Idf. He's provided evidence to Scotland Yard on these atrocities.
It will be interesting to see in the future whether this evidence will ever be used.
Or whether the total impunity will carry on into the future.

You are setting up a straw man. No one is saying they are all going to die if there is no Israel. They are saying that there is a very real risk of persecution against which they won’t be able to defend themselves. History clearly tells us this is true. In addition many Jews, like other peoples, want to have national self-determination.

The wars Israel fought in 1948 and 1967 were instigated by their neighbours. So I don’t think it’s true that there would have been peace but for Israel’s subsequent actions.

I see what you are saying and I hasten to add I'm in favour of a homeland for all groups at risk if persecution. The way Israel has gone about the homeland is nothing short of ethnic cleansing though. This has come straight out of the mouths of the government, and this is what has changed my mind of late. Something needs to be done about it, they need to be reined in (by who, I've no idea). It's got nothing to do with self determinination. It's a clear cut 'I want all the land and don't give a toss about who gets murdered/made homeless in the process'. The Palestinians are in dire need of a homeland right now. The Christians are at great risk of extinction. Israeli estate agents are already advertising plans for "homes on the beach" where "we've cleared the rubble and we're fending off the squatters". They are talking about Gaza, where there is a humanitarian crisis occurring. This hegemony which causes gross human rights violations needs to stop.
ETA: I've seen posters on this board say the Jewish people will be wiped out, and there are many videos online saying the same thing.

Plusjamais what has been more shocking to me is so called feminists using the awful events of 7 October to justify the murder of more than ten times the amount of women and children in Gaza, truly shocking for a feminist board and no wonder non white dislike white feminism.

Israel sets up in 1948 with a LOT of financial help from the US.

Illegally and violently extends its borders. Persecutes and murders Palestinians in their thousands (per UN stats)

Palestinians hate Israel. Traumatised and dispossessed groups form violent terrorist organisations. Several hundred innocent Israelis are brutally murdered.

Israel says “See we told you need to defend ourselves”

Israel murders thousands of innocent Palestinian children in a few weeks, destroys schools, hospitals and utilities, clears 1.5 million Palestinians from their homes. The world protests. World leaders everywhere demand a ceasefire, warning that a generation of trauma will lead to more terrorism.

”Antisemitism!” says Israel. “Pro-Hamas. Victim-blaming. See we told you we need to defend ourselves. This land is ours and we’re going to take it.”

Israel proceeds to go completely rogue, blatantly bulldozing and shooting random people for literally no reason at all, including its own citizens who were holding up white flags.

Am I missing anything?

(It was Hamas fault apparently that Israel shot its own citizens. Hamas don’t wear uniform so that’s why the IDF is obliged to shoot every person it sees.)

Non white?

What?

Many posters further back in the thread did state there would be another holocaust if Israel was not there. I am confused who they think would carry that out? When I look at the world today and look at the most vulnerable in society at risk of persecution because of their colour, creed, sexual orientation, the refugees fleeing for safety, the abused, the homeless, those in poverty, Jewish people do not come to mind. I am not for a minute saying antisemitism doesn't exist and the current threat level is higher than normal but the belief that without Israel (which literally no one is suggesting) Jewish people are at risk worldwide from another holocaust is such a massive leap and extremely unlikely.
I know I will get flamed for this post but you have to be realistic, Israel is going no where and Jewish people are not at risk of genocide.

Yes, that's boggled my mind too.

Have you counted the six million Jews murdered in the Holocaust?

If your thinking “but the Palestinians didn’t do that” - the reason it’s relevant is because exile from their ONE Jewish land - which is what Palestinians and many anti-semites want - would result in this again. So it’s important to factor it in as a relevant number. It hasn’t even been 80 years FFS and people are happy to roll over and let it happen again, swallowing the EXACT SAME message Eastern European countries did last time

for context this is one of the posts I was referring to earlier in the thread. I genuinely do not understand where and by who another holocaust would happen?

Suggesting Hamas are blameless when Israeli hostages are shot in friendly fire… I don’t know what to say, people are so cruel. Any decent person would be against the taking of hostages, including Jewish hostages.

Baruch dayan ha'emet, may their memories be a blessing.

I would hope justifying the murder of thousands of civilians would boggle the mind more then the description of who might be considered white, but apparently not it seems.

Absolutely right. Any decent person would be

whattheactualfrog, I’m not saying Hamas is blameless ( who is?) but sadly the hostages were safer with Hamas then when they were considered a Palestinian civilian by the IDF.

There is a lot of minimization happening in this post. "Several hundred innocent Israelis" murdered? Try almost two thousand in a day, targeted towards civilians, with no intention to target the IDF.

Palestine has suffered thousands upon thousands of deaths, which is absolutely horrific and inexcusable. This is at the hands of the IDF (and Hamas through both misfire and neglect). Absolutely nobody is denying this. Israel has had it's own share of suffering and persecution by Hamas, other terrorist groups, and governments worldwide. This is being hugely overlooked by many posters.

Please stop blaming "Israel" and focus your attention on the IDF and Hamas as the forces at work here.

Righto, well I'm sure those who knew the Bibas children would disagree.

They weren’t safer. Many hostages have been tortured, executed or “lost”. These hostages had managed to escape.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/10/israel-revises-death-toll-from-october-7-hamas-attack-to-1200-people

1,200 is the official toll apparently now.

When they clearly were safer as now they are dead because of the way IDF treat civilians in Gaza, and sadly that lady with her sweet red head children most likely died from Israeli carpet bombs or the white phosphorus.

@WibbleWobbleFlop that is their MO. Sow the seeds of doubt around Israel... how many people died?
And no mention of rockets into Israel daily sent from built up areas? People terrified in bomb shelters, rocket attacks on hospitals (yesterday), that perpetual sense of fear.
There is only recognition for one 'side' and it shows an enormous lack of awareness.