Has anyone changed their mind from what they have read on here?

[mollyfolk]

we’ve argued a lot. We’ve backed up our arguments with lots of proof. Has anyone changed their mind or viewpoint - I’m just interested?

it would be lovely if we didn’t argue here and just let everyone state their views.

I’ve spent most of my life in Ireland, where you’d be hard pressed, in the present day, to meet someone who doesn’t agree that the Israeli authorities treat Palestinian’s terribly. It wouldn’t be controversial here to say - isn’t it awful what’s happening in Gaza - in any situation whether when I lived in the UK it was a lot more controversial and wouldn’t be a suitable thing to mention in work for example.

I haven’t changed my mind but I’m a lot more educated about anti semitism and have more understanding of the viewpoint of people who support the Israeli government.

Well, that’s a carefully evidenced and articulate reply isn’t it. Well done 👏👏

I never said it wasn't necessary for Israel to exist, point out where I did please because if I did I will edit the post. My point was that I didn't think Israel was currently under threat of not existing which previous posters has suggested.

Except that "Israel" is blamed repeatedly as if Israelis were in some way separate and distinct.
Separate and distinct from what?

Definitely, in my opinion, one of the most anti-Semitic posts ever on MN.
An absolute wonder that it is till standing!
Shame on you Braticus.

Yeeeeeah. We have tried “Jews trying to survive as a persecuted minority” in pretty much every Middle Eastern, North African, and European country there is. So far a 100% failure rate. So we’ll stick to exercising our human right to self-determination thanks.

@floodlightonwhatisright What is antisemitic about believing everyone should have equal rights?

Yes, I have seen that there have been small protests, I've made it clear that i don't think every Israeli agrees. I looked before to see if there had ever been protests against illegal settlers and Israels support of them because of people here insisting that Israelis were against them and found protests where 10s of people or 100s of people had attended.

Perhaps in future we will see marches with a significant portion of their population attending and the sacking and charging of politicians and military personnel if change is something the majority of Israelis actually want.

Indeed.

@OuiOuiKitty Small protests? "Tens of thousands were set to rally nationwide" is massive. The overwhelming majority of Israelis want Netanyahu out. This has been widely publicized in unbiased news. It has been posted on this thread for you to see.

Netanyahu's regime and the IDF do not represent the average Israeli, and conflating Israel with it's leadership is leading to the high amount of anti-Israeli, and in turn, anti-Semitic sentiment we are seeing worldwide.

There is nothing anti-Semitic about that. What is anti-Semitic is the implication that Israel (the only Jewish state in the world) be abolished in form of a single-state solution known solely as Palestine, thereby removing the safe haven of Israel from Jewish people worldwide. It is in the definition of anti-Semitism agreed by the European Commission.

"I'd go as far as to say that in a just world there would be one Palestinian state" were your words.

I have barely engaged in these threads on MN and thank fuck I’m not on social media because it’s all just people venting and ranting. Very few will change their viewpoints.

@WibbleWobbleFlop its anti-Pal to say the Palestinians can't have a state. They, more than anyone else right now need somewhere safe.

@feralunderclass And I wouldn't deny the Palestinians a state. A two-state solution is the best option there is. But abolishing Israel is anti-Semitic, and that is what @braticus said was an ideal solution.

The Palestinians have been offered a state many times and rejected it, they’re not being “denied” it

And we all know that Israel will not entertain a two state solution don’t we, so they will be denied it.

There is nowhere else on earth where people from differing faiths and races don’t live side by side with equal rights except Israel, why is this ? Why do you think you deserve that right, but no other people do ? Why don’t the people of Gaza deserve their own state and their own human rights ? Why are they already marketing beach villas in Gaza to the settlers ?

Jewish people all around the world seem to happily live in many other communities, and co-exist with their friends and neighbours, if they are happy, why can’t you ?

Can you actually answer any of these questions ?

I absolutely agree with those who mention the issue of borders. These days every other country has recognised borders, and if they extend them it's an act of aggression. Israel, however, has borders which extend into Syria, the West Bank and Gaza. They are not internationally recognised and seem subject to change. A real first step to peace would be to define where the state of Israel begins and ends and to firmly stick to those boundaries. It would save a lot of aggro, and it is how the world works these days.

Israel has agreed to so many two-state deals, Palestine has rejected every single one. Israel is only 70-75% Jewish, all ethnic minorities in Israel have equal rights. Israeli Arabs even hold elected office. Compare to Palestine controlled areas which Jews cannot even enter. Bethlehem (controlled by Palestine) used to be over 80% Christian in the 50s, now the population has declined to 10%. But some displaced people don’t count…

Borders are often changed by war, that’s normal. In the case of Israel they changed in their favour after war was declared on them by their neighbours and then the invaders lost. Actually a pretty good cautionary tale in why to not invade people.

@Crazypaving16 I am glad more are seeing and it will be reported properly.

@whattheactualfrog Sorry, nebulous borders are just not how the world works. For a start, how can you defend them if you are not quite sure where they are? Those territories occupied by Israel are not recognised as 'won'. Golan Heights, West Bank and Gaza are deemed illegally occupied. If Israel wishes to say they are theirs they need to draw up a legal process to designate them as official borders. It's a source of ongoing conflict that there are no internationally recognised and legal borders, and I really believe that if they were defined, and if the state of Israel remains within those borders, there would be far fewer issues. It is all too unclear.

I agree with this
I would be horrified if someone from another country thought that for example I shared some of the same views as Suella Braverman or held me responsible for it

Yes, I don't know why you want me to repeat myself, small protests. The average Israeli doesn't want the safety of Palestinians to be considered in this conflict, the average Israeli doesn't want peace negotiations. This has been shown in polls. I would say that if the average Israeli doesn't think the safety of Palestinian civillians should be considered and the average Israeli doesn't want peace then the government and the IDF are in fact pretty representive of the average Israeli. Obviously the polls weren't 100% in favour but they were pretty damning in their support of the government's actions. They may want Netanyahu out despite voting him in repeatedly but overall they seem supportive of his campaign in Gaza.