Netanyahu and Hamas

[AdamRyan]

I am very confused about the Israel/Gaza situation and find it almost impossible to read about it without getting tangled up in how people who support the citizens of Gaza are pro hamas/anti semitic etc.

But I've heard from a few places now that Netanyahu actually encouraged Hamas so as to divide Gaza and the West Bank. I'm surprised there hasn't been more made of this as surely this means he has a lot of blood on his hands.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/amp/

Help me understand please.

Check the rules. It is where the answer to your question lies.

It is sad that some do not understand that barbarity is never right and that nothing can excuse it. Supporting it is beyond my understanding too.

Why does someone expressing horror at the horrendous and inhumane conditions currently being endured by Palestinians bother you so much?

This competetive wailing and gnashing of teeth, making everything about you is really not helpful.
By saying this you are ,in effect, minimising the horrors of living in Gaza. This is really not helpful.

I am sure the poster can speak for themselves.
This is the last time I will engage with you as I feel that your posts are nothing but personal attacks meant to antagonise. It is unbecoming.

No this is not what I am saying. But the people who live in the 'Arab' world, Africa and other parts of the non-Western world- are seeing very different videos than the ones allowed on Western News. Torture, humiliation, shooting of innocent civilians in the street and in their homes, children amputated without anesthetics and antibiotics, indiscriminate and massive bombings. What we see on UK or USA News is very controlled, limited and sanitised.

What has happened in recent months is seen by the Arab and non-Western world as having gone way beyond safety retaliation, but the desire to eliminate all Palestinians and take over Palestine, and get all Palestinians relocated elsewhere. The confirmation now that Netanyahu does not want a 2 State solution is seen as his aim from the start- by non Western countries, and even, by many in the Western World. Seen as illegal punishment for a whole people, ethnic cleaning as a means to take over their land- which has been done piecemeal since 1948- and now, finally- totally.

And it does put Israelis at risk- and Jews all over the world- in 100s of ways.

By saying that Jews around the world will suffer because of what's happening in the Palestinian territories, you're implying that you believe Palestinians (at least that's who I assume you mean will be the ones who will turn on Jews all over? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) to all be antisemitic. Is that really something you want to be shouting about so loudly?

Sadly, antisemitic hate crimes have increased in the UK since 7/10. It is incredibly unjust to blame innocent Jews for what is happening in Gaza, just as it is to blame innocent Palestinians for what Hamas did. There’s also been an increase in Islamophobia. Some people just need an excuse.

This is not at all what I am saying- and this is not at all antisemitic. The whole of the Arab world, Africa, South America - all 'non'Western' nations are with Palestine, and totally against this ethnic cleansing by Netanyahu and extreme zionists. In a world conflict, they will turn against the West, and some in particular.

As for Tzipi Hotovely, the Israeli Ambassador to the UK- she should be sent back immediately for her total refusal to even consider a Palestinian State, and her abhorrent Islamophobia. Disgusting woman who is doing so much damage to the Jewish people, in the UK and all over the world.

https://twitter.com/kimleadbeater/status/1735307694708326419?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1735307694708326419%7Ctwgr%5Ed1876805826f73456bbd0327112c34854f3f0387%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thelondoneconomic.com%2Fnews%2Fcalls-for-the-israeli-ambassadors-expulsion-grow-367023%2F

By saying that Jews around the world will suffer because of what's happening in the Palestinian territories, you're implying that you believe Palestinians (at least that's who I assume you mean will be the ones who will turn on Jews all over?

Racism is a reaction of stupid people that is often induced by what they see and hear on mass media. Zionists tell the world everyday that any criticism of them is a criticism of Jews, what is a stupid person to think?

Everyone I know on social media, a lot of whom are Muslims, posts and reposts any comment or action by Jews against the occupation of Palestine to try to counteract that effect, because we know how easy it is for people to be racist.

Out of curiosity, what do you think a Zionist is?

Anyway, who exactly is it you think will turn antisemitic then, @fleurneige ? And since you can see it coming, I assume you have some kind of beginning of a plan to counteract it. I'd be interested to hear what your plan is.

Everyone I know on social media, a lot of whom are Muslims, posts and reposts any comment or action by Jews against the occupation of Palestine to try to counteract that effect, because we know how easy it is for people to be racist.

It’s been pointed out to you enough times by now how tokenizing Jews and employing the “Good Jew” trope is harmful to Jews, but you keep doing it so the only conclusion to be reached is that it’s deliberate. Antisemitism cannot be counteracted with more antisemitism.

Anti-Zionism is the reaction of racist people who don’t have any knowledge or understanding of what Zionism really is, think they’re superior to the minority group it represents and can therefore redefine, appropriate and misrepresent it to their liking.

No, and no, and more no, sorry

(Anti-Zionism is the reaction of racist people who don’t have any knowledge or understanding of what Zionism really is)

Here is an excellent debate- which clearly shows that anti-zionism is not at all the same as anti-semitism

https://www.intelligencesquared.com/events/anti-zionism-is-anti-semitism/

Yes, and yes, and absolutely more yes, not sorry.

ETA: cutting off the very contextual and relevant second half of my post to talk over it kind of makes my point again.

Please, do watch the debate.

This.

Please watch the excellent debate.

The motion: Anti-Zionism is Anti-Semitism. Correct. The end.

It has been suggested that opposing or criticising Zionism as a form of nationalism is not antisemitic.
I realise not all agree with this - but criticism of Zionism being labelled as being antisemitic is not universally accepted.

https://jerusalemdeclaration.org/

Criticising Zionism and being anti-Zionist are not the same thing.