Do lots of people support Hamas?

[elprup]

I just read this story and it is absolutely horrific

I saw ten Hamas terrorists beat and gang-rape an Israeli woman

https://mol.im/a/12820081

Is everyone on the pro-Palestine marches in London solely supporting the innocent civilians of Palestine (as I do too)? Or are there some people on these marches supporting the actions of Hamas as well?

I want to join the marches in support of innocent adults and kids in Gaza (and I would want to march for the same reasons on any pro Israel marches too), but I do not want to endorse Hamas in any shape or form. They are absolutely vile.

Not new by any means.

It appears you missed the fact I was talking about Provisional Sinn Féin and Provisional IRA aka the Provos.

The Provos weren't around at the time in that link. 🤦‍♂️

PIRA/PSF was part of an international terrorist network that included Libya, Iran, ETA, FARC, Hamas and so on. They even trained together.

To counterbalance your wee link, the Godfather of the Israel Defence Force was an Irish man who was an officer in the British Army.

And was friends with Netanyahu's father. Also buried in Israel with his wife and next to the soldiers he commanded.

John Henry Patterson.

Mural still up near Shankill Road, Belfast.

Sadly this is correct. I live in north west London. The day after the attacks (so before any kind of retaliation by Israel) I passed a car flying a large Palestinian flag out of the back window. That person clearly was celebrating Hamas’s actions. We have to come to terms with the fact that a sizeable group of people in this country as well as worldwide are supportive of the actions of murderous antisemites. What we do about it, I don’t know.

marvellous ceiling -“ WTF does "support" even mean. How do you even measure "support".”

I take “support” to mean “agree with Hamas’ aims and actions” .

You can measure this by looking at what people say / do . But you can also make a judgement based on what people won’t say .

People on here who are determined to avoid any reference to the atrocities of Hamas are either supportive of Hamas or are “useful idiots” unwittingly supporting terrorists.

@Limeandsodaontherocks I was referring to Palestinian support of Hamas, and not to people on MN.

But if you are somehow implying that it is ok to oppress all Palestinians on the basis of what they don't say, then we will never agree.

BTW I don’t think it’s ok to avoid mentioning the terrible things Israel has done - but that is for another thread I think?

To answer the question.

Yes. Lots do.

And there are a few on MN but whom are very careful to hide it.

However, there are 4 or 5 main Pro Palestinian posters extremely active on the conflict boards and they probably keep changing their names so it looks like they have support. Anyway, if you go through their posts - easy to do - just open up a thread in a browser and hit Ctrl and F together and type in their user name, you will see all their posts and see a pattern and zero condemnation for Hamas. They engage in extreme whataboutery about Israel and how they have treated Gazans badly for 75 years and therefore Israel had it coming. They also pop up on threads where obviously Jewish people are discussing concerns about Anti- Semitism.

These are the Hamas supporters. Easy to spot. I know who these posters are. Edited

@Limeandsodaontherocks I don't see how you can consider one without considering the other TBH.

No I wasn’t saying that about Palestinians. OF COURSE they can’t say how they feel about the terrorists who control the region they live in . They are living in fear of Hamas . If you look back at the original post you will see it is about how many are Hamas supporters on the London marches etc .

Well I can see that - but lots of posters just use any thread title as an excuse to post the same points about Israel. This thread has a different focus .

I'm sure you do.

But the fact is PIRA failed and, if a border poll goes Provisional Sinn Féin's way in future, it still won't be anything you could attribute to PIRA itself.

Several of their own highly significant members already admitted PIRA failed and were defeated anyway.

We were saying the armed struggle’s failed, it can’t win. The jails are filling up, people are dying left, right and centre and the British are getting the better hand on us.

Obviously we knew in our hearts that we were deeply, deeply infiltrated at a very high level.

“The armed struggle had to stop. We’d dump weapons, call the ceasefire, and then go into talks."

• Frankie Quinn, senior member of the PIRA's East Tyrone brigade, one of the deadliest of PIRAs cells.

"The attrition rate was just so appalling.

The SAS, the British intelligence services were obviously in a position to intercept most operations.

It was absolutely clear that we were losing if we hadn’t already lost the war and that it was time to cash in the chips.”

IRA director of intelligence Kieran Conway

PIRA member John Crawley, an ex-US Marine before joining PIRA, asserted:

"It was a defeat for the Republican Movement, a complete military and ideological defeat across the board that opened up career paths for certain members of the leadership, but left us ideologically destroyed."

Crawley also described the British as "masters at counter-insurgency".

PIRAs violence massively delayed any united Ireland. Surveys show that the more they murdered, the more people resisted it. Hume noted it too.

That's the point - the Belfast Agreement was only possible because PIRA was defeated. It was the British Government’s aim all along to achieve that and push Provisional Sinn Féin to the negotiation table which is why they saved the lives of Provo leaders.

Israel has a different aim - they kill leaders of Palestinian terrorist groups.

Political settlements are NOT possible without a successful security process.

Demoralising terrorist groups leads to a decline in support too. Hamas are nowhere near this yet.

@ohforheavenssakedearcomeonnow people on the MN boards are not pro-Hamas, they are disgusted at what Israel is doing to Palestinians as well as what Hamas did to Israelis. If you look back through threads, at the beginning everyone was adding "I do not support Hamas" at the end of every single comment, lest they be smeared (as you are doing) a Hamas supporter. In time adding this has trailed off, but does not mean they support Hamas.

I guess as people like you are so keen still to smear them with this ridiculous accusation they still have to be adding it on there.

People are calling for peace, they are calling out war crimes by Israel, as highlighted by the United Nations, Amnesty and more. These do not equate for support for Hamas.

I'm not saying support for Hamas does not exist at all, but attempting to smear people calling for peace as a Hamas supporter is a cheap shot and a lie in 99.999% of cases.

Calling for peace does NOT equal support for Hamas. Although I can see it is a tempting excuse for you and others to try to stop people talking about what Israel are doing. To say "look over there, they support terrorists" when they are just asking for war crimes and collective punishment to stop.

There is a reason you did not directly reply to my post as I actually said:
"And there are a few on MN but whom are very careful to hide it."

A FEW.

Not all.

@ohforheavenssakedearcomeonnow I'd even dispute that there are a few.
Not saying something does not equate to support for a terrorist organisation. That is a fascist way to think.

But if there are individuals or posts you suspect, you should report them.

I would have gone on a peace March but I did not to because of

1. the celebrations in the street near where I live after October 7th
2. the tearing down of hostage posters
3. the refusal by people I knew going to the marches to mention the reality of what happened on Oct 7th - instead they wanted to deflect and talk about Israel .

People I know who went in the marches said it was peaceful etc which is great .. but there was a lot of mumbled obsfucation when I asked what the chanting was meant to imply and what Israel should do to prevent another attack.

So I decided not to go. I’ve no doubt most of the thousands who went are well meaning. But I’ve also no doubt that Hamas is delighted with the PR from the marches

I think the “ not saying something “ applies when someone is very vocal about condemning Israeli atrocities but says nothing about Hamas atrocities.
I don’t think it’s “ fascist” to think that silence can be revealing.

As I said I'm not going to derail the thread so I'll have to agree to disagree with you on the Irish stuff.

How do Israel try to target the leadership of Hamas? According to lots of posters on these boards who are sympathetic with Israel the leadership are living in luxury in Qatar? Over the weekend information emerged on the AI the IDF uses to choose targets which suggest the bombing is not well targeted. A place will be bombed if there's intelligence of one Hamas fighter even if that means killing dozens of civilians. The civilian casualties reflect this.

Yep ⬆️

Blimey, what a derailment. This thread is whether Hamas has a lot of support not about rubbishy Israeli targeting.

To respond to your derailment. Israel are destroying tunnel systems, armaments and other targets designed to eradicate terrorist threats.

I was responding to a comment made by DownNative about Israel only targeting Palestinian terrorist leadership. Is that alright?

I don't support Hamas but don't approve of what Israel is and has been doing.

What an odd question.
I don't support Hamas and I don't support Israel. What I do support is ending a genocide

You can think all you like about what others don't say. It's a free world. Doesn't make your judgement true.

Yes. And they appear on every thread regardless of what it's actually about.

Same old stuff over and over again

Do lots of people support genocide? That would be an interesting thread to start.

By the way, for the record, lest I be smeared, I do not support Hamas.

It definitely is fascist to think that. It is just having an interest in basic human psychology to think about how people react to news or evidence. Then pondering on the react or lack of react people give. Especially when the likes of some celebrities or even posters on mumsnet call out every human tragedy that happens, yet are silent about the pogrom. Then even if pushed they give a slight reference then go all whatabout and don't want to talk about the torture, rapes or murders or only do so too deny they are true.

A fascist is actually someone that doesn't want to debate things and tries to cancel anyone that has a different opinion than themselves

Tim Minchin did a brilliant stand up talk on fascism and confirmation bias. Confirmation bias is definitely what a lot of posters on mumsnet seem to have at the moment. Which is interesting because that leads to fascism that they accuse others of being. Like many words getting used on the conflict board it seems some posters don't understand the meaning or definition in real world terms.