Brits fighting in Israel

[headhurtstoomuch]

Will their British citizenship be revoked? Here is Tamara being glorified in the DM while the likes of Shamima Begum was crucified.

What's the difference between what either of them did because I can't see any and neither should be allowed back.

Are you really asking this? Shamina Begum joined ISIS, terrorists who decapitated children and women, who took other young females muslims as sexual slaves ..

This lady from your post has joined an army from democratic country. We can not agree with war but to compare her to a lady who joined a terrorist group...

Jew brits? I'm not Jew but I totally understand them going to fight, Israel was the only safe country for Jews, I understand them fighting in a war Hamas started. Shamina Begum was groomed but before travelling to Syria she read all the atrocities ISIS was doing ( it was all over the media) and she went there anyway.

I don't agree with war ( or any war) but if I were jew and if I saw those videos of Hamas gang raping, cutting breasts, beheading and raping death bodies I would like to aniquilate Hamas too.

To be fair Russia was declared a state sponsor of terrorism.by the European Parliament.
The European Parliament on Wednesday designated Russia a state sponsor of terrorism, arguing that its military strikes on Ukrainian civilian targets such as energy infrastructure, hospitals, schools and shelters violated international law.

Does any of this sound familiar? To me it sounds a lot like you could sub Israel for Russia. There are valid questions to be asked around why this accusation has not been leveled at Israel by the European Parliament too when Israel have clearly targeted everyone of the things above and more. There is an argument to be made that Israel are committing acts of terror, 'civilians getting killed' doesn't really cover the horror that Israel have inflicted on the people of Gaza.

Oh dear....civilians get killed in all wars since the beginning if time.

No they don't. They really don't. Civilian deaths are a feature of modern warfare. Until then it didn't happen. It's pretty recent really. Prior to that you had people who went to battle with weapons they held in their hands and they scrapped things out between themselves. No one else got hurt.

Look up 'terrorism

Well I've looked it up and the definition just refers back to itself.

To my mind that makes it a nonsense definition.

How about you look it up?

@Ocani I think I love you!

Excellent posts 👏🏻

I have no idea where you get your information from but its laughable. Just plucking a historic war at random - About 5 million people were killed in the Thirty Years War & the vast majority were civilians. Seiges were a characteristic of war going right back to ancient times - civilians die in seiges.Its largely the point of seiges. At least a million civilians died in the napoleonic wars. One historian estimated that 50% of war casualties from 1700 onwards were civilians. He didnt crunch the numbers before 1700 but of course civilians died. How do you think land is captured in a war?

Yes the Napoleonic wars were the precursor to modern warfare. As time has gone on we've kind of accepted massive loss of life as being just how things are.

It wasn't always the case though. In 1815 the death toll was viewed as horrific.

Now it's par for the course. If you're winning.

This is the most stupid thread. It's pretty obvious it's not the same situation at all. The Begum girl is a terrorist who did a midnight flit to join a terrorist organisation, the other girl lives In Israel - a democratic country and is carrying out national service

Is your question about the legal technicalities or the morality because they are different questions?

Do you know what happened to those that have gone to the Ukraine / Russian war ? As I know a few went as well

I'm amazed reading through this and at anyone who can't understand the difference.
One went to join a terrorist group whose aim is to kill any 'disbeliever', commits atrocities towards the rest of the world and their own people, including raping women, slavery, sentencing gay people to death, the list could go on...
The other is fighting for a country that has recently been viciously attacked by a terrorist group who in their manifesto has said that their aim is to wipe out any living Jew.
Obviously there are a lot of questions about how Israel is continuing with this war, the treatment of people living in Gaza and how, if ever, there will be any peace between the two sides but to compare those two women is ludicrous.

There are plenty of UK citizens who fight for other countries at any one time there are plent in Ukraine for example. mercenaries have always existed, the UK has Gurkhas for example.

This is what Reuters says regarding Ukraine

WHAT ABOUT AUSTRALIAN, BRITISH AND INDIAN VOLUNTEERS?Britons traveling to Ukraine to fight could be subject to prosecution upon return, according to a UK Foreign Office travel advisory last updated Wednesday. Asked by Reuters what charges would apply to UK volunteers, a spokesperson for the British Foreign Office declined to comment.

The United Kingdom's Foreign Enlistment Act, last updated in 1870, blocks citizens from joining foreign militaries fighting countries at peace with Britain, but it has not been applied to modern conflicts. The UK Foreign Secretary initially voiced support for citizen volunteers to fight in Ukraine, but later warned against any travel there.

——

I think the difference in this scenario is that she’s dual Israeli and was living there. It’d be different if someone only British in the army decided to go and fight for Israel in Gaza. They could have their British passport revoked (but I really doubt uk would)

Our Rabbi's son has gone to fight. We're all massively proud of him. And one of our Israeli friends has moved back as a reservist. Both fantastic, brave men.

Am Yisrael Chai.

I've reported this to both MN, the CST, and Prevent for excusing/glorifying terrorism.

So, how were the civilian losses killed in the Thirty Years War 'viewed'? Or was that the precursor to the precursor of modern warfare so somehow still within the parameters of your argument....

I wish I was amazed. All that matters is people's double standards around Israel. Anyone with a modicum of analytical ability can workout the difference between fighting for a terrorist organisation and fighting against against a terrorist organisation.

Yes. Some of the posts are extreme, good idea to report as pp has done

Sanity?
When did this "modern" warfare start exactly when civilians started getting killed. I look forward to reading about all these massive campaigns where no civilians got killed... I enjoy fiction.

While they are at it, can they tell Hamas leaders, who are sunning themselves in Qatar, to go to Gaza and fight like men.
To go and get their monsters to stop firing rockets.
Oops, I almost went as far as bringing Begum into the conversation, who is totally irrelevant.

@Depdawg - if you are going to write lies about why Hamas leaders are in Qatar I'd suggest you do some research before being seen as Islamophobiic.

The Americans asked Qatar back in the day to keep them there so when wars like this happened they had someone to talk to.

@basculin Shamima was groomed by an organisation funded by the US. If shamima was a white girl your thinking would be totally different and unbiased though and that's a fact. Coming back to Israel, Israel is an illegitimate state created stolen and funded by our country and the US and today happily facilitating carpet bombing children ffs, children. Read about proportionality in war and what qualifies for a genocide.

Go to the balkans in the 90s and see how the definition of "terrorism" today quickly changes back to freedom fighting because it suits the US's agenda to further dogfight between Russia.

To anyone who dogmatically supports our country's stance in this genocide seriously needs to be given a shock to their brain to restart their thinking and actually questioning all of this. A lot of our problems stems down to our country constantly facilitating wars around the world, invading countries, creating refugees and today glorifying those actively committing a genocide.

I suggest you have a major rethink before you sound antisemitic, minimising proscribed terrorists.

Saying this is not antimuslim, lots of muslims dont like Hamas....