Brits fighting in Israel

[headhurtstoomuch]

Will their British citizenship be revoked? Here is Tamara being glorified in the DM while the likes of Shamima Begum was crucified.

What's the difference between what either of them did because I can't see any and neither should be allowed back.

I agree, it's ridiculous and based on incorrect information. It should be pulled. She's lived there since she was young. She has not 'gone back to fight'!

Totally agree Ssd.
Jewish experts (one who survived the Holocaust and one whose parents were the only survivors) amongst others are calling it a genocide. Are they antisemitic?

Now, this is a revealing post, isn't it? Its not the first modern conflict by any means where we are seeing the impact of widespread bombing in cities. Its just the first one where these people are taking any notice. Syria anyone?? Bombing and murder in all sorts of places but only when Israel is involved do people lose their minds.

Who is 'they', who are going to take back control and shape the narrative?

IDF have been filmed shooting a 9 year old boy to death in West Bank. So proud .... 😢

Do you think this thread should be pulled. The press article is of a British citizen who has legitimately been part of the IDF by virtue of her joint nationality and patriotic obligatiion. Some of the responses here have very nearly deemed her a terrorist and therefore as her name is in the public domain made her prone to some sort of anti Semitic action?

MN please look at this as we are talking about a UK citizen who has bravely entered armed force service. We do not want any abuse (or worse) directed at her.

Hamas spreads lies and is a banned terrorist organisation in the UK. Unless we keep fighting back they and their supporters will try to control the discussion of these issues.

For the record, I supported the Syrian Free Army in its thwarted opposition to the Assad regime which is a tyrannical despotic regime. The Middle East has been a place of great tragedy as the 'Great Powers' retreated from their imperial conquests. Every Arab country can recount the blood that was shed in freeing themselves of their colonialist masters. In the case of Algeria, a million died as France was forced to relinquish control.

Israel wasn't a blank canvas on which European Jewish refugees from Nazi genocide could establish a homeland but a place from which it was necessary to violently expel many of the inhabitants who have lived there for centuries and in that cauldron were sown the seeds of everything that has happened since. If Zionists can't respect and understand that inconvenient truth then we are where we are and what will be will be, 2 implacable foes - one much stronger and supported by Western powers embarking on a genocidal project of the destruction of Gaza the other driven virtually mad by inchoate rage. If both sides don't retreat from the extremism of Likud and their supporters and the Islamist fanaticism of Hamas then there is no hope, each begats the other in an endless cycle of upping the ante and bringing on endless war and suffering.

Thankfully there are numerous anti-Zionist Jews who share the vision of unity across the divide. Jewish Voice for Labour being just one.

https://twitter.com/JVoiceLabour

Interesting thought @mids2019.

Over the years the Israelis have been to be very cagey about personal security (PERSEC)..dark visors down or sunglasses being worn in images of certain individuals in their military operating in certain roles wasn't just done to look cool.

I gather more recently some other nations armed forces have tried to tighten up in a similar manner but with social media and all that it's tough to keep a lid on data.

Regardless of this thread the genie is sort of out of the bottle but I wonder how much of what we've been told about the captain is actually true and completely accurate?

Another revealing post, though completely missing my point. Apparently people in the ME have no agency in their own history, aoart frim the Jews, of course. And as for JVL, give me strength. The most diplomatic, objective thing I can say about them is they do not, in any way, represent the views of the majority of Jews in the country

Syria anyone?? Bombing and murder in all sorts of places but only when Israel is involved do people lose their minds
I disagree, we were very aware of Syria , and I think you know very little, if anything , about Syria.
what started as an Arab spring sweeping Tunisia , Lybia , Egypt and finally Syria Escalated into a full blown Civil war between many Syrian factions . One side supported by Foreign Coalition and the other the Russian backed Assad regime .

But the key word here is Civil not an illegal occupation.

I thought it was antisemitic to call Jewish people Jews ... Forgive me if I am wrong but I saw this on another thread. You cannot say, "the Jews think," ect A Jewish person was listing what was antisemitic and said that that is.

Care to talk about mercenaries or non-Palestinian's actions for Hamas on 7/10?

@notimagain

I wonder about the wisdom of the original press article as I can very much see the need for security as you have described. I do not know to what extent the woman gave permission for the article but I think the daily mail is benefitting a little more than the soldier involved.

Will the soldier in question be given security advice for life in the UK?

The point stands that the original post in my view is anti Semitic in the comparison to a known terrorist sympathiser who has had citizenship removed.

In fact aren't you suggesting wrongly a British citizen has engaged in a criminal enterprise. Is that potentially libellous?

I didn't say 'the Jews think'. Its not the word 'Jew' that is the problem there. Its the idea that all Jewish people think the same in a homogeneous mass that is problematic. Particularly in the context of Jews controlling the world and other antisemitic tropes which imply that all Jewish people act in concert with the same aim. An implication that creeps into these threads all too regularly I hasten to add.

Hopefully, someone might forward to the woman in question.

People spout so much rubbish and should be held to account.

Disgusting thread.
You should be admiring a brave young woman who is fighting for the lives of her countryfolk and the values which allow our free speech.

Actually readibthe article she defended Israelis against the 7/10 onslaught. It was women like her who prevented even more children being tortured in front of their parents. Go girl!

Nasty, nasty stuff.

A Jewish woman who is a citizen of Israel puts on her country’s uniform. And she’s compared to a run-away terrorist?

Misinformed. Offensive. Horrible.

Petuniasandpetals Oh yes how brave joining an army that is attacking a civilian population that has no army, no airforce , no navy, no way to escape and few working hospital. How very brave indeed. It’s not war it’s mass murder of civilians. How brave to make Gaza the most dangerous place to be a child.

I don't think anyone would say that there is no difference between ancient and modern warfare. That would obviously be untrue. Its not an issue of my view or anyone else's but an issue of verifiable historical evidence. Which is why it does matter that this Ocani is pulled up on things that are clearly just wrong. because she questions the whole notion of a terrorist which is at the heart of double standards on Israel and Palestine.

Meh. What does terrorism even mean these days?

Prior to modern warfare only soldiers got killed or hurt even in massive campaigns. Now every itty bitty war you've got civilians being killed and maimed right left and centre, usually by forces that score "legitimate" because they're fighting in the name of a nation state. Which is just a line on a map that someone drew after yes, you guessed it, a war.

If terrorism = civilian deaths then all modern wars are terrorism. If terrorism means surprise attacks then all modern wars are also terrorism. If terrorism means violence enacted by non-state parties then pretty much every struggle for land based self governance that ever happened is terrorism including but not limited to every country in the world that has liberated itself from colonialist presence over the past couple of centuries.

When pulled up on the statement that civilians did not get killed in pre-modern wars she doubled down. This was not a 'turn of phrase'.

No they don't. They really don't. Civilian deaths are a feature of modern warfare. Until then it didn't happen.... Prior to that you had people who went to battle with weapons they held in their hands and they scrapped things out between themselves. No one else got hurt. [ironic in the context of October 7th when people were attacked by people who saw them face to face and looked them in the eyes]

And then the key point that there isn't really an objective definition of a terrorist.

It's a quaint notion really, that one organisation oriented towards killing civilians is terrorist and another is not just because a third party government says so.

Even in the horrible mess and trauma of war and killing when innocent people on all sides die, you have to be able to tell the difference between those who go way, way beyond the line that humans have drawn in the sand. You also need to be able to keep a grip on logic and rational thought and try to distinguish between facts and untruths, however hard that is.

On Oct 7th and for some time thereafter Hamas, based in Gaza, had tens of thousands of irregular combatants and had "air" in the shape of unguided rockets.

Not having combatants in recognisable uniform does not allow you to play the "we don't have armed forces so you must leave us alone" card....

Well said

Israel also spreads lies and misinformation - people are now realising how far it is from being a democracy.

Am yisrael chai

With you too.