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Conflict in the Middle East

Documenting the horror that is Hamas

1000 replies

Brumbies · 29/11/2023 21:58

vm.tiktok.com/ZGedgv8DA/

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Hellenika · 06/01/2024 23:37

StarbucksSmarterSister · 05/01/2024 15:38

Euromed is hardly independent, despite what it claims. Most of its officials are Arab.

And once again we have established they were not "literally " kidnapped.

Right, so you didn’t accept the Haaretz article written by an Israeli Jew despite it being an Israeli newspaper with a respected international reputation for reporting as verification of over a hundred Gaza women being detained by IDF. Despite the fact that everything they publish must be approved by the IDF military censor. You’ve said “IDF denies it” when all they denied was detaining unaccompanied children, they never denied detaining women. Why would they when there are photographic and video proof of it? So why wouldn’t you accept that article again?

So I post the same story also verified by a European human rights monitor, Euromed. Now you say you would not accept the same information, because it hires “Arabs” on its staff.

What race/religion staffed entity would you accept then as an “independent source”?

I though we had agreed that “detaining without charge” was more preferable to you than my emotive “kidnapped” although the word kidnapping itself was invented by the Irish in the 1670s to describe the action of when British troops would simply round up off the streets random Irish civilians, usually women and children, for the purpose of then deporting them to the colonies as forced labour despite these civilians never being charged with or suspected of any crime whatsoever. Kidnapping, in its original meaning, was about the military of an occupying force just taking civilians. So while I am happy to modulate my language to your modern sensibilities and refer to it as “detaining without charge”, I would like you to be aware that under the original intended meaning of “kidnap” the IDF mirrors exactly what the British did.

Humdingerydoo · 06/01/2024 23:45

Pretty sure you know you're losing an argument when you start bringing up the etymology of words to try and prove a point. You're reminding me a bit of people who try to claim people who don't like Arabs are actually anti-Semitic because Arabs are semites, dontcha know?

Maybe just accept that you used the wrong word and move on. It's not a big deal, it's by no means the most outrageous thing that's been said on this thread.

stomachameleon · 06/01/2024 23:46

And a history lesson :)

EmberLight · 06/01/2024 23:51

25milesfromhome · 06/01/2024 22:54

I think they’re saying quite clearly that Bisan is a Hamasbara mouthpiece and rape-denier.

I find targeting her quite chilling given the huge number of press that Israel has murdered. And given the situation she and others like her now find themselves in as a result of Israel's bombardment.

stomachameleon · 06/01/2024 23:56

@EmberLight both of those accusations are factually correct though.

quantumbutterfly · 06/01/2024 23:56

I find the actions of hamas rather more than chilling.
I find the descriptions of actions and the joy in those actions from Oct 7th unforgivable.
I find those in my country who support those actions with celebration and denial, despicable.

EmberLight · 06/01/2024 23:59

stomachameleon · 06/01/2024 23:56

@EmberLight both of those accusations are factually correct though.

Sorry I missed the evidence that she's in Hamas?

quantumbutterfly · 07/01/2024 00:01

25milesfromhome · 05/01/2024 21:47

This is from the Free Press and Peacecomms,

“I don’t know where my father is. I don’t know if I will ever see him alive again. My hope in telling this story to the public, and putting my name to it, is to somehow offer my father a measure of protection.”

On December 30, twenty masked men abducted Mohammed Mushtaha, a respected imam in Gaza. “He knew that refusing to act as a megaphone for Hamas could lead to his death,” his son Ala writes, “and yet he refused.”

https://www.instagram.com/p/C1uTYDAryAV/?img_index=2

I hope this man can come home to his family unhurt.
We know what hamas are.

25milesfromhome · 07/01/2024 00:09

EmberLight · 06/01/2024 23:59

Sorry I missed the evidence that she's in Hamas?

You missed it because that wasn’t what was said. A Hamasbara mouthpiece, not a member of Hamas.
I find it chilling that Bisan put her name to and publicised a total denial of the rape and intimate atrocities carried out by Hamas members on October 7th. It’s important to speak out about what’s happening in Gaza, but denying, justifying or minimising the Hamas atrocities of October 7th to her huge audience is a propagandist tactic.

stomachameleon · 07/01/2024 00:16

So your telling me that she is allowed to say what she likes, has unlimited power etc. travels in and out of Gaza (talks openly about working in other countries including Israel) Drive a new car. Posts dodgy posts that can be disproved. Doesn't then correct misinformation. Lied about Israeli women being raped. I could go on...

Hmmmm whats not to see?

StarbucksSmarterSister · 07/01/2024 00:29

I though we had agreed that

You and I agree on absolutely nothing.

StarbucksSmarterSister · 07/01/2024 00:30

Meanwhile an interview I just posted on the hostage thread with Agam Goldstein refers to other women that she met whilst a hostage, who had severe injuries which had not been treated. It seems like Hamas picks and chooses doesn't it?

Hellenika · 07/01/2024 00:32

Humdingerydoo · 06/01/2024 23:45

Pretty sure you know you're losing an argument when you start bringing up the etymology of words to try and prove a point. You're reminding me a bit of people who try to claim people who don't like Arabs are actually anti-Semitic because Arabs are semites, dontcha know?

Maybe just accept that you used the wrong word and move on. It's not a big deal, it's by no means the most outrageous thing that's been said on this thread.

I did accept that “kidnap” wasn’t the best word, ages ago. It’s not I who hasn’t moved on. Since it keeps getting dredging it back up, thought I’d give an interesting bit of history.

Documenting the horror that is Hamas
Hellenika · 07/01/2024 00:38

StarbucksSmarterSister · 07/01/2024 00:30

Meanwhile an interview I just posted on the hostage thread with Agam Goldstein refers to other women that she met whilst a hostage, who had severe injuries which had not been treated. It seems like Hamas picks and chooses doesn't it?

Not when you consider the big picture:

  1. The logistics of getting to a hospital alive are extremely challenging at best given 24/7 bombing, street fighting and so on.
  2. Gazan hospitals were also attacked and as the war ground on, most have gone out of operation due to the war.
Hellenika · 07/01/2024 00:51

StarbucksSmarterSister · 07/01/2024 00:29

I though we had agreed that

You and I agree on absolutely nothing.

Yes, I am beginning to see that.
Can you explain why you don’t think reports by respected news sources with Jewish or Arab staff working on them are not “independent” enough for you even if the facts they are reporting have been verified by the Israeli military censor AND a European human rights NGO?

StarbucksSmarterSister · 07/01/2024 00:52

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

StarbucksSmarterSister · 07/01/2024 00:55

Can you explain why

If you read back I have explained why. Try reading my posts slowly, it may help you.

Hellenika · 07/01/2024 01:09

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Are you saying Gaza is not a war zone? And that all their hospitals are fully operational? I’m just applying logic to the situation of why not all hostages might have been taken to a hospital for medical care.

EmberLight · 07/01/2024 08:18

stomachameleon · 07/01/2024 00:16

So your telling me that she is allowed to say what she likes, has unlimited power etc. travels in and out of Gaza (talks openly about working in other countries including Israel) Drive a new car. Posts dodgy posts that can be disproved. Doesn't then correct misinformation. Lied about Israeli women being raped. I could go on...

Hmmmm whats not to see?

I'm not telling you anything.

Like a lot of your posts this is quite incoherent so i can't really respond.

But if her having a car is proof she has ties to Hamas then LOL.

Humdingerydoo · 07/01/2024 08:23

Hellenika · 07/01/2024 01:13

I know! How about CNN?
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/27/middleeast/gaza-children-detained-idf-video/index.html

btw, this link includes reporting on the women detained as well as the children.

Maybe one of the kids is the one running around with a gun at the very end of this video? It's a video showing the kidnapping (is that still an acceptable term to use despite the child in question not being Irish?) of a 12 year old who has since been released.

https://www.nbcnews.com/now/video/israel-vows-to-hunt-down-hamas-leaders-after-deadly-attack-201457221958

Israel vows to hunt down Hamas leaders after deadly attack

Israel is vowing to hunt down and kill Hamas leaders they claim are responsible for the October 7th attack in the country. This comes after a top Hamas official was killed in a drone attack in Beirut. Israel has not publicly claimed responsibility for...

https://www.nbcnews.com/now/video/israel-vows-to-hunt-down-hamas-leaders-after-deadly-attack-201457221958

stomachameleon · 07/01/2024 10:16

@EmberLight sorry I didn't realise English wasn't your first language? I can try and break it down for you if you like.
She can say what she likes in an area notorious for no freedom of press.
She travels in and out of Gaza (unusual)
Has new car (in a war zone?)
Posts things that can't be verified and if they are proved not to be true then ignores.
Lied about Israeli women and the sexual violence of 7/10.
Spreads misinformation.

That better?

stomachameleon · 07/01/2024 10:18

@Humdingerydoo there is lots of footage of children involved in 7/10.
So they have every reason to detain them.

EmberLight · 07/01/2024 10:25

stomachameleon · 07/01/2024 10:16

@EmberLight sorry I didn't realise English wasn't your first language? I can try and break it down for you if you like.
She can say what she likes in an area notorious for no freedom of press.
She travels in and out of Gaza (unusual)
Has new car (in a war zone?)
Posts things that can't be verified and if they are proved not to be true then ignores.
Lied about Israeli women and the sexual violence of 7/10.
Spreads misinformation.

That better?

No need to be so rude. I genuinely can't follow some of your posts which is not because I don't speak English well but because you aren't writing them clearly.

I'm not sure why her having a car is so upsetting. Or her speaking her mind. Seems like a you problem to be honest.

Also spreading disinformation or having opinions different to yours don't make her a Hamas mouthpiece or whatever you called her.

On a day when Israel has murdered 2 more journalists I think people should be mindful of the situation for people like them and Bisan at the moment trying to survive and work under Israeli bombardment.

stomachameleon · 07/01/2024 10:31

I wasn't being rude I thought you had an issue and was trying to make it easier to read.

Here having a new car is not 'upsetting' but unusual in a war zone where aid is being lorried in.

And of course she can speak her mind but handy that it's 'on point' for the area she lives and the regime she lives under.

Spreading misinformation about the raping and torturing of women is upsetting to me but if it sits ok with you that's fine. It's not a 'difference of opinion' I would encourage.

Bisan is not the only journalist who does the same. There is more to come. With handy slides.

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