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Conflict in the Middle East

“Pause” ends tomorrow. Anyone else filled with dread ?

466 replies

Desertrose2023 · 27/11/2023 15:28

Just that really. I’ve felt such relief the past couple of days that my phone won’t be filled with a constant stream of murdered Palestinian kids and wailing parents. That all ends tomorrow and I have such a sense of foreboding even though I’m safe and comfortable thousands of miles away. I can’t begin to imagine the dread the Palestinians in Gaza must be feeling tonight knowing their genocide resumes tomorrow. When will it end 😞

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42
Toothyfruity · 01/12/2023 16:13

XRAYTHIS · 01/12/2023 16:01

So Hamas said the rockets/missiles fired towards Israel a few hours before the ceasefire ended (and before Israel fired back, after the ceasefire ended) were 'a misfire' or mistake. Where have we heard that before.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/1/the-israel-hamas-truce-has-ended-what-we-know-so-far

@Toothyfruity

Per your own source Israel broke the ceasefire - "The UN humanitarian office, OCHA, reported that despite the pause in fighting, Israeli forces shot at Palestinians in Gaza on November 29, killing two people. They also shelled people on November 30."

But I'm not actually arguing about who broke it. I never said Israel definitely did, I just pointed out that only Israeli sources were saying that Hamas broke it first. International sources were saying they didn't know.

My point has always been that bombing neighbourhoods full of people is not reasonable, and I want Israel to stop slaughtering innocents.

United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs - occupied Palestinian territory | Hostilities in the Gaza Strip and Israel | Flash Update #55

On 30 November, the humanitarian pause entered its seventh consecutive day. It has enabled a major increase in the delivery of basic supplies into and across Gaza, primarily by the Egyptian and Palestinian Red Crescent Societies and UN agencies. Howeve...

https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-flash-update-55

PeasfullPerson · 01/12/2023 17:01

Absolutely, I agree it is not reasonable to indiscriminately kill or hurt people and the focus should be on this rather than ‘but he started it first’. Both sides believe that the other side started it and there will be no end to the deaths with this sort of childish, selfish, ego driven reasoning.

Ixxy1980 · 01/12/2023 18:13

Parkingt111 · 01/12/2023 09:59

@Ixxy1980 the issue is that despite being asked to move to Rafah, there has been strikes in Rafah too since this morning
So It's not really safe to move there either

This is appalling. How can they say they are trying to minimise civilian casualties by telling them to go to a certain location and then proceeding to bomb that location! I think they are just paying lip service to the US by distributing those leaflets, they said that hopefully it will get less confusing as civilians get used to it; it’s like some sort of sick real-life squid game!

It’s so awful to see that families have so little trust that there is anywhere safe to go, that they are staying in their houses, preferring to die together in their homes, it must be so horrific for the parents holding their children, not knowing if they are going to survive the night.

James Elder from UNICEF is still in Gaza in the largest functioning hospital which is at 200% capacity, and filled with wounded children sleeping on the floors. He said that a bomb hit literally 50 metres away. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0UQJQnN0ih/?igshid=ODhhZWM5NmIwOQ==

The IDF are in Gaza, in tanks, they have forces on the ground. I don’t understand why they don’t use ground units to go for Hamas rather than just dropping bombs. Surely that would be the best way to minimise civilian casualties?!

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0UQJQnN0ih/?igshid=ODhhZWM5NmIwOQ==

Stomacharmeleon · 01/12/2023 18:27

'But I am not arguing about who broke it'
'News where I am saying Israel broke it'

You are wrong.

Stomacharmeleon · 01/12/2023 18:27

@Toothyfruity

Backbutnotready · 01/12/2023 18:33

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster.

Xenia · 01/12/2023 18:54

It is right that Israel continues given what terrorist Hamas has done. The actions of Hamas in Israel are like the US 9/11. Democracies like US, Israel and UK protect our rights and freedoms and are justified in their actions when attacked - this war - it is awful but it is what allows us all to do who we do in the West.

Backbutnotready · 01/12/2023 19:05

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster.

Toothyfruity · 01/12/2023 19:09

Stomacharmeleon · 01/12/2023 18:27

'But I am not arguing about who broke it'
'News where I am saying Israel broke it'

You are wrong.

OK we'll say that Hamas ended the ceasefire then.

Israel still killed 100 people today and are terrorising hundreds of thousands of civilians.

Parker231 · 01/12/2023 19:20

Toothyfruity · 01/12/2023 19:09

OK we'll say that Hamas ended the ceasefire then.

Israel still killed 100 people today and are terrorising hundreds of thousands of civilians.

More Palestinian deaths funded by money and arms provided to Israel by the UK and US - poor judgment!

Backbutnotready · 01/12/2023 19:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SharonEllis · 01/12/2023 19:34

Parker231 · 01/12/2023 19:20

More Palestinian deaths funded by money and arms provided to Israel by the UK and US - poor judgment!

Its so interestimg when people reveal how little they know about the region in their simplistic black/white/oppressor/victim shaping of the conflict. Israel gets US aid certainly but its a highly sophisticated economy - the biggest in the Middle East, and one of the biggest centres of tech industries in the world. Israel makes huge amounts of money from its own exports, including arms. The idea that its some sort of pawn of imperial nations UK & US, as someone suggested above, is nonsense - not least because the UK hasn't had an empire for a very long time & its international influence is much less than it was.

Parker231 · 01/12/2023 19:43

@SharonEllis

Adjusting for inflation, US aid to Israel from 1951 to 2022 totaled $317.9 billion, making it the largest recipient of American foreign aid since World War II.

Israel remains reliant on US aid and support

ohforheavenssakedearcomeonnow · 01/12/2023 19:48

Why aren't some of you protesting in the streets about Hamas being allowed to break the ceasefire , provoke Israel into eradicating them quite rightfully and for putting civilians in harm's way?

If the rest of the hostages were released now, and Hamas leaders gave themselves up, then the conflict would end immediately.

It's not going to end unless Hamas do the right thing so as tragic as all casualties are on both sides, bleating about Israel isn't going to change anything.

So how about calling for Hamas to do the right thing on the streets of the UK?

I mean look at this disgusting behaviour:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/galleries/article-12814697/Hamas-parade-distressed-captive-father-dead-baby-Kfir-new-video.html

Hamas parade distressed captive father of dead baby Kfir in new video

Hamas has claimed Israel is refusing to take back the bodies of the Bibas family, including 10-month-old Kfir.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/galleries/article-12814697/Hamas-parade-distressed-captive-father-dead-baby-Kfir-new-video.html

BabaBarrio · 01/12/2023 19:49

Xenia · 01/12/2023 18:54

It is right that Israel continues given what terrorist Hamas has done. The actions of Hamas in Israel are like the US 9/11. Democracies like US, Israel and UK protect our rights and freedoms and are justified in their actions when attacked - this war - it is awful but it is what allows us all to do who we do in the West.

I don’t think the Hamas attack was like 9/11 at all. I was there in NYC when 9/11 happened to the twin towers, the Pentagon and then the one that crashed after the hostages overpowered the hijackers.

I didn’t agree with Netanhyu’s comparison to 9/11 and I certainly won’t agree with anyone parroting it.

BabaBarrio · 01/12/2023 19:56

@ohforheavenssakedearcomeonnow
”Why aren't some of you protesting in the streets about Hamas being allowed to break the ceasefire , provoke Israel into eradicating them quite rightfully and for putting civilians in harm's way?”

Israel was breaking the ceasefire from day one. They shot and killed civilians in Gaza. They refused to let the agreed on 200 trucks of humanitarian aid in, only allowing in around half that. They agreed to a certain amount of fuel going in and then refused to let it all in. They agreed to release Palestinian prisoners, released them, but then went back and re-detained some of them. They tear gassed and shot and killed family members waiting for the prisoner release outside Ofer prison.

BabaBarrio · 01/12/2023 19:58

Almost forgot, they also agreed to no drones over Gaza and broke that part of the ceasefire.

ohforheavenssakedearcomeonnow · 01/12/2023 20:01

BabaBarrio · 01/12/2023 19:56

@ohforheavenssakedearcomeonnow
”Why aren't some of you protesting in the streets about Hamas being allowed to break the ceasefire , provoke Israel into eradicating them quite rightfully and for putting civilians in harm's way?”

Israel was breaking the ceasefire from day one. They shot and killed civilians in Gaza. They refused to let the agreed on 200 trucks of humanitarian aid in, only allowing in around half that. They agreed to a certain amount of fuel going in and then refused to let it all in. They agreed to release Palestinian prisoners, released them, but then went back and re-detained some of them. They tear gassed and shot and killed family members waiting for the prisoner release outside Ofer prison.

None of what you said constitutes a breaking of the ceasefire.

OuiOuiKitty · 01/12/2023 20:02

BabaBarrio · 01/12/2023 19:56

@ohforheavenssakedearcomeonnow
”Why aren't some of you protesting in the streets about Hamas being allowed to break the ceasefire , provoke Israel into eradicating them quite rightfully and for putting civilians in harm's way?”

Israel was breaking the ceasefire from day one. They shot and killed civilians in Gaza. They refused to let the agreed on 200 trucks of humanitarian aid in, only allowing in around half that. They agreed to a certain amount of fuel going in and then refused to let it all in. They agreed to release Palestinian prisoners, released them, but then went back and re-detained some of them. They tear gassed and shot and killed family members waiting for the prisoner release outside Ofer prison.

Shhh, you are only allowed to mention the things Hamas does. Multiple posters actually thought that 3 Israelis being killed outside Jerusalem counted as breaking the cease-fire. I don't know how they can simultaneously be so riled up yet steadfastly refuse to do any research at all, it's either that or they genuinely don't see Palestinians as people so the deaths of Palestinians in the West Bank at the hands if Israel meant nothing at all to them.

ohforheavenssakedearcomeonnow · 01/12/2023 20:03

Like I said, be proactive and get out on the streets to protest against Hamas if you want a ceasefire.

Simples.

Goodornot · 01/12/2023 20:06

Weird how many of you make this conflict about yourselves and your feelings.

It's really distasteful and disrespectful to go on about your dread.

You don't need to watch it.

BabaBarrio · 01/12/2023 20:08

ohforheavenssakedearcomeonnow · 01/12/2023 20:01

None of what you said constitutes a breaking of the ceasefire.

Edited

Yes it does. Ceasefires are agreements that have terms and conditions. They always include stop firing guns. Which Israel broke on day 1 by shooting at and killing civilians in Gaza.

ohforheavenssakedearcomeonnow · 01/12/2023 20:10

Good idea to convert your dread into something proactive and protest for Hamas to do the right thing instead of engaging in they did this and they did that.

HeidiInTheBigCity · 01/12/2023 20:10

Xenia · 01/12/2023 18:54

It is right that Israel continues given what terrorist Hamas has done. The actions of Hamas in Israel are like the US 9/11. Democracies like US, Israel and UK protect our rights and freedoms and are justified in their actions when attacked - this war - it is awful but it is what allows us all to do who we do in the West.

I, for one, am so very, very happy and grateful that these countries, democracies, exist and have the policies they pursue! That they protect me!

I am so grateful that Israel protects me from the dangers of Palestinian terrorists, whose sole goal is to eradicate humankind, myself included, wholesale!

Israel says it protects me - and Israel is a democracy!

I mean, granted: I personally find it hard to stomach that this may include holding and torturing my ex-husband, M. - the most apolitical person I have ever met in my entire life. But M. is Palestinian, hates the occupation (even though he would never do anything about it), and that is a problem!

Israel protects me from M. - and Israel is a democracy!

And, okay, I have a few questions about how my friend H. ended up with these unusual scars. He tells me he was shot as a mere child. He tells me they took him, and that he grew up in prison. H. may have taught me that to take up a gun was to sign up to being a killer - and that there were better ways, that neither he nor I wanted to be killers. But H. is Palestinian and therefore sadly needed to be shot, imprisoned and tortured and may yet have to be killed in the name of my protection!

Israel conveniently protects me from H. - and Israel is a democracy!

Also, it is regrettable that R. died. Fine, R. might only have been 11 but: make no mistake: R. threw stones at a tank, and therefore, R. was a dangerous terrorist. When R. "died", this was "sad", "tragic", "unfortunate but unavoidable", and any number of other things. But do please note that R. "died". R. was most certainly not "killed in cold blood"! And I, personally, might have needed therapy to come to the realisation that, not only could I cope with witnessing this in person - but also, actually: R. was metaphorically, technically, somehow not only throwing stones at tanks (without even hitting), but also: R. was basically throwing stones at me (the fact that I had been teaching that kid English for months incident-free notwithstanding).

Therefore, I am so grateful that Israel protects me from the likes of R. - and Israel is a democracy!

A democracy, you see, is a place where people get to choose who rules over them! A democracy is a brilliant thing that protects our rights as well as our lives! So, say, hypothetically, if you lived in a place called, say, "Nablus" (or "Bethlehem", or "Jenin", or "Khan Younis"), you would be able to pick - along all of your fellow citizens - who makes the rules that pertain to you! So that, for example, you would never be subject to arbitrary state violence, would enjoy equality before the law and that the state will protect you. In return for this, you would agree to surrender to the state that represents you the monopoly on the use of violence. Great stuff!

... except ... oh, wait. No, never mind!

... yeah, anyway, I am so glad that Israel protects me. Protects my ex-husband M. and my friend H. Would have protected my student R. - had he not inconveniently "decided" to just "die".

I am so, so, so glad that Israel protects me, because Israel is a democracy!

BabaBarrio · 01/12/2023 20:10

OuiOuiKitty · 01/12/2023 20:02

Shhh, you are only allowed to mention the things Hamas does. Multiple posters actually thought that 3 Israelis being killed outside Jerusalem counted as breaking the cease-fire. I don't know how they can simultaneously be so riled up yet steadfastly refuse to do any research at all, it's either that or they genuinely don't see Palestinians as people so the deaths of Palestinians in the West Bank at the hands if Israel meant nothing at all to them.

I suppose they missed the children that Israel has been killing in the West Bank all through the ceasefire too then. West Bank and Jerusalem were not part of the ceasefire agreement. It’s not coincidence that Hamas killed three waiting at a bus stop in Jerusalem the day after IDF shot and killed an 8yr old and 15yr old that were running away from them and posed no threat, not even a stone to them.