Detainees, Truce and Agreements *title altered at OP's request*

[stormy4319trevor]

Continuing broad discussion of the release of detainees, hostages and prisoners and the agreements around this.

@Parkingt111 Yes, Russia wanted the original wording with 'urgent suspension of hostilities,' which is not in the resolution that has passed, Looks like things will continue with no change really. Devastating. I'd like to think more aid could enter, but with so many UN staff being killed, buildings destroyed and the current bombing, it seems unlikely.

I think the conditions are when Israel thinks it has defeated Hamas.

It doesn’t mention the hostages, so I presume Hamas will not release any hostages as there will be no ceasefire and they will continue to be killed by their own would be rescuers (IDF). I think the US and Israel might be over confident in their ability to rescue the hostages through military force. So far, they haven’t rescued any except for one female IDF soldier that was not an Oct 7th hostage but briefly a POW. Instead, they have killed, I have lost count but want to say close to a dozen?

I read today that currently 2 in 10000 people/day are dying of hunger in Gaza [children, pregnant women, elderly, disabled are most vulnerable]

That's ~200 people a day dying of starvation in addition to the 100s dying from the bombardment

A humanitarian ceasefire could have avoided the vast majority of these deaths

So so disappointing

@BabaBarrio yes exactly

No of hostages freed by negotiation 110

No of hostages freed by military intervention 1

Seriously doubt much is going to change as a result of this resolution - this is what the Israeli Ambassador to the UN is saying right now [my bolding]

“And any enhancement of UN aid monitoring cannot be done at the expense of Israel security inspections. Israel not only has a right but an obligation to guarantee its security. This is why our mission to eliminate Hamas has capabilities has not changed. And this is why security inspections of aid will not change,” he added.

“Just as this council is committed to increasing aid, it should also be committed to blocking the smuggling of arms and transfer weapons to the Hamas terrorists. And just as this council is committed to ensuring aid reaches Gazan civilians, It should also be committed to ensuring the…aid…is not diverted…[to] terrorists who do not care about the civilian population,” he added.

The resolution is so disappointing. Israel is turning it into a criticism of the UN’s aid distribution. 😟 I agree it isn’t going to change things in Gaza.

I'm so upset for everyone in Gaza. It's beyond cruel what they're experiencing. I saw some dreadful videos today. Really unbearable stuff. I'm so sad.

I don't think the world will ever be the same after what the US and Israel are getting away with.

This is more likely to cause WWIII than anything else because it is making a mockery of the Geneva Convention. The fact that US and Israel can, and are getting away with this destroys the very foundation of the UN.

I can't see anything meaningful from this resolution. Maybe slight changes but nothing significant that needed to be debated over for a whole week. Allowing in sufficient aid is the bare minimum surely
That should have been done from the start of the war

@Parkingt111 the US negotiated out all the significant bits, that’s what took so long.

@Toothyfruity I'm sad too. It all feels very wrong.

So is everyone else!

Spoke at length with both a) my Palestinian ex [we may be divorced but are still close], and b) another close Palestinian friend tonight!

Long story short:

NOTHING of what is happening right now is making people feel more conciliatory or less angry!

My ex ... he always used to be quite horribly non-political! Somewhat ironically, when we were married, I used to have to basically drag him along to any event and protest, saying "mate, look, this is about you more than it is about me! If I am livid about what is happening to your people, surely you ought to be at the very least not pleased?!" ... he is - and I hate to say this, but it is true - essentially "pro-Hamas" nowadays! He says "they are the only ones who will stand up for us".

On the other hand, my friend has always been a fellow leftie! I first met him quite acidentally at some "call to all Internationals who happen to be here right now" meeting that I happened to be made aware of and attended (because I had had my first taste of "occupation" at that point, and was beginning to get angry). He taught me - in the middle of a refugee camp, when I was shell-shocked and heartbroken and angry and not, emotionally speaking, in a good place, to try and be less angry and more human! He introduced me to Palestinian left-wing thought. And to the first contacts I ever made among Israeli leftists!

He is angry, too! We had the most touching, heart-breaking conversation tonight that boiled down to "remember when you - arguably - were the one who made the difference because ... of course I was fucking radicalised after what I saw ... but you were the one who steered me towards radically human as opposed to the alternative ... if it had not been for you ... I do not know ... please follow me now, too - because you taught me well and you did a great job when I was so hurt that I just wanted to hurt people back. Please do me the honour of letting me lead you now - based on the same principles that you taught me!". And he did me the honour and "followed me back" now.

I know just how "messy" this all sounds ... it does because it is!

TL;DR: Gaza is so bad right now that even people who never would have thought they might even ... it just makes people horribly angry to the extent that they are not even "themselves" anymore!

For the record: I am not, nor have I ever been "pro-Hamas".

I was successfully "inoculated" against that 20 years ago - by Palestinians!!!

The bare-faced cheek of the Israeli gov seeking to blame the UN for the humanitarian crisis!

Do they think everyone has forgotten the 'total siege' they started on 9/10

How is it that the UN is responsible for only 10-15% of the usual aid being allowed in by them?

How is it the UNs fault that insufficient fuel is being permitted for lorries to distribute aid?

Is the UN bombarding Gaza and making it difficult to safely travel with much needed resources for people and hospitals?

It's a deliberate strategy everyone was told about weeks ago

@Efacsen I suppose the defence will be that aid is being high jacked by Hamas going through the border (we have seen that)
Israel are insisting they are can process much more aid than is being presented.

I do understand the upset but maybe if there was some condemnation of Hamas taking aid from people it might help? (I don't mean you I mean generally)

Hijacking of humanitarian aid by combatants is not unique to Hamas and UN has considerable experience dealing with these problems- see Darfur where whole convoys of aid were hijacked by warlords - the response in Darfur and other places where this has happened was not to reduce the aid and further starve the civilian population

Arguably increasing the amount of aid would decrease the hijackings but you'd not want that would you even tho' if Hamas are going hungry means the hostages are too

This is all planned and actioned irrespective of whether or not the UN has sufficiently condemned Hamas

Don't be naive

.

I realise for many people that they didn't realise that people are dying all over the world, and the world turns away. Its happened for years and is still happening in Dafur, Iran, Yemen, China, etc etc etc.

Many have taken an interest in Gaza that never knew bad things went on before 🙄 and are still completely deaf and blind to other things in other countries.

Anyway, more aid, more negotiations and once a ceasefire sorted a Arab peacekeeping force in Palestine with strong defined borders fully protected.

apple.news/AK0wyIMhbTLCXLxRzVbOjow

@Efacsen I didn't say it was nor am I making it excuses. I thought of these threads was to debate?

Don't presume what I know or don't know. If you're surprised or confused by someone being sad about civilians being bombed and starved then that's grim.

Suggest you stop tagging me [persistently] if you don't like my responses

And I'm going to go back to ignoring you

,

In terms of destruction, of children, health care workers, UN workers, journalists killed - this event is more severe than other conflicts. Then there is the fact that Palestinians have been suffering for so long, is it 75 years? There is real fear, with the current Israeli government, that the occupation and displacement will intensify to a point of no return. For me, as a Christian, it's hugely upsetting. it is Christmas, and that people should be suffering on such scale, in the holy land, assisted by western governments, is very wrong.

No ceasefire without full hostage release is the issue casuing all the problems.

Not Israel. Not the USA. But the Gazan/Palestinian government.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67768062

@floodlightonwhatisright Or no full hostage release without ceasefire. It's a stalemate.

Absolutely

And who is caught in the middle but the poor hostages