Detainees, Truce and Agreements *title altered at OP's request*

[stormy4319trevor]

Continuing broad discussion of the release of detainees, hostages and prisoners and the agreements around this.

@Parkingt111 Yes, maybe Biden is trying to suggest a change because the comments are so blatant.

Concerns had already been raised when the current Israeli government first came in..I read some of the articles from then and they were already pointing to issues arising.

@Rachna83 I remember that too, the concerns over the most far right government Israel has ever had.

I mean Israel is openly committing ethnic cleansing and genocide and nothing is happening to stop it. I really think there's no limit to what the US will let them get away with.

Looks like the White House is now trying to backtrack on what Biden said earlier today.

www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/dec/13/israel-gaza-war-hamas-live-updates-news-un-ceasefire-hostages-us-israel-relations-palestine

@ItsRainingTacos79 they tend to do that when Biden let's the truth out by mistake

Although this time it's clear he only said what most were thinking and saying anyway
So no amount of damage control will help

Biden's 'indiscriminate bombing' has been confirmed this morning by US Intelligence services and reported by CNN - walking back from some things is easier than others!

''The assessment, compiled by the office of the director of national intelligence and described to CNN by three sources who have seen it, says that about 40-45% of the 29,000 air-to-ground munitions Israel has used have been unguided. The rest have been precision-guided munitions, the assessment says.

Unguided munitions are typically less precise and can pose a greater threat to civilians, especially in such a densely populated area like Gaza. The rate at which Israel is using the dumb bombs may be contributing to the soaring civilian death toll.''

Think I'm correct to say that the vast number of bombs dropped from IDF planes are
also unguided 'dumb bombs'' So not a great deal of safeguarding civilian lives or hostage lives for that matter

Negotiations - Hamas haven't 'been in touch' with the Qatar mediators for sometime and the Hostage families are very upset that that the Israeli government won't send Mossad negotiators to Qatar

It's been said on here that Hamas left Doha a couple of days ago this appears not to be entirely true , Mousa Abu Marzouk was there earlier today and someone else whose name escapes me was speaking from there yesterday

The reason I mention it is that this story came from @ Gaza Reports on twitter which is widely quoted by some posters as facts based evidence - this is the second materially untrue 'fact' I've seen in just a few days and puts an even bigger question mark over this guys reliability

Yes this was reported on as a suspicion in October photos emerged of Israeli fighter jets being loaded with what were clearly unguided missiles. I suppose the photos have now been verified as to date and geolocation.

This also doesn’t include the tens of thousands of surface to surface munitions being used, 100% of which are unguided: tank shells and artillery shells. Among which it has been verified are white phosphorus artillery shells which are internationally banned for use in any armed conflict in urban areas.

Yes the day the truce collapsed, Israel recalled the Mossad negotiators from Qatar.

apple.news/AfT4ZJSkdS8-l3leFF8apvQ

That was quite interesting re Qatar.

@Efacsen when I saw the article this morning about the use of dumb bombs and how it contributes towards the indiscriminate bombing I was so angry
All this time we have been saying the bombing is indiscriminate and we have been called unreasonable/hysterical yet here we are now and it's out for all to see the reality for what it is

Exactly!

I'm noticing this morning that Israel rejects a two state solution. And there we have it. They do want to snatch Palestine.

Think I'm correct to say that the vast number of bombs dropped from IDF planes are also unguided 'dumb bombs''

The CNN statistics estimated “40-45% of the 29,000 air-to-ground munitions” are dumb bombs, so the majority from the fighter jets will be guided missiles. The missiles from the jet fighters are one type of air to ground munitions. The rest of the air to ground munitions would be from the drones (UAVs) and potentially helicopters. Israel isn’t using helicopters over Gaza as far as I have seen because they are low flying, they are vulnerable to the RPGs and rockets that Hamas have in their armoury. The drone strikes are dumb bombs as they are not guided missiles (do not have an INS). They are targeted though with sophisticated targeting within the drone. Drones are so close to their target, they don’t really need self guiding missiles. Fighter jets are bombing from much higher up so really need guided missiles.

I think it is important to note that all guided missiles have a FTS built in. This is so if you accidentally launch a guided missile and then go oh shit that’s a school or hospital or ambulance, the pilot can push a button that will tell the missile to head straight up and explode harmlessly at high altitude. There aren’t many seconds to do this, but this fail safe does exist.

Well, there was always indiscriminate bombing, all surface to surface munitions are dumb bombs- all tanks, all artillery. They have unloaded at least half the total bombs landing in Gaza.

Thanks for the information @Hellenika

I'm aware that Mossad left when the negotiations broke down - my post was about the hostage families wanting them to go back

That is true. The meeting between former hostages, their families and the families of those still held hostage and Nethanyu was reported to have been very contentious. Nethanyu was shouted at, told to resign, people walked out in the middle in disgust with Nethanyu for refusing to reopen diplomatic negotiations in Qatar for another ceasefire, temporary or permanent. It was reported former hostages told Nethanyu that while in Gaza under the bombardment, they did not fear Hamas would kill them, they were afraid that they would be killed by an IDF bomb. It was reported that they felt abandoned and betrayed by their own government who seemed to value killing the terrorists guarding them more than saving their lives. A bomb hitting them hidden with Hamas would kill them too. I will try and find the link to that report I think it was Haaretz as they were outside the meeting room and interviewed people anonymously as they came out and could hear the shouting.

@Hellenika yes the awful meeting was posted about up-thread

Here. It’s not the news report I recall reading, but it is consistent with it:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/chaos-and-yelling-freed-hostages-family-members-clash-with-netanyahu-in-meeting/

@Efacsen doesn't say much more than what the headline is though. Am struggling to get it to link.

@Efacsen that's all I could find re Mossad going back. www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-13/ty-article/.premium/israels-war-cabinet-blocks-mossad-chief-from-restarting-hostage-talks-in-qatar/0000018c-64ee-dbd5-a39c-ffffefd60000

There is a UN general meeting happening right now

For the Palestinians, Riyad Mansour said Israel's assault was a war against "Palestinian history, Palestine presence, Palestinian existence".
He said that Israel was targeting the present and future of Palestinians - by targeting engineers, doctors, poets, academics and journalists. He paid tribute to the Al Jazeera journalist killed today, Samer Abu Daqqa.