Detainees, Truce and Agreements *title altered at OP's request*

[stormy4319trevor]

Continuing broad discussion of the release of detainees, hostages and prisoners and the agreements around this.

Many thanks @Stomacharmeleon It does look like US and UK will oppose a ceasefire from that. On the other hand, if there is a threat to world peace and security, it's a very serious issue to ignore that - and they will have to justify it now or later.

UNSC vote has been put back to 5.30pm EST which is 22,30 GMT

Horrendous. UK and US are disgraceful.

They're sealing the fate of thousands of people.

@Toothyfruity I really hope discussion will change their mind. They still feel they should back the mission until IDF has achieved their military goals. But they don't seem to worry about the cost and they have failed to make clear how anyone is to know when the goals have been reached. Plus, to ignore warnings about threats to international peace is very dangerous.

This is what the US Ambassador to the UN is saying

US says it does not support calls for immediate ceasefire in Gaza

The US ambassador to the UN, Robert A. Wood, has said his country does not support an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, arguing that it “would only plant the seeds for the next war”.

Wood, speaking at the UN headquarters in New York, said the security council’s failure to condemn the Hamas 7 October attacks on Israel was a serious moral failure.

Hamas continues to pose a threat to Israel, he said, adding that an “undeniable part of that reality” that if Israel unilaterally laid down its weapons today, Hamas would continue to hold hostages. He said:

For that reason, while the US strongly supports a durable peace in which both Israel and Palestine can live in peace and security, we do not support calls for an immediate ceasefire. This would only plant the seeds for the next war, because Hamas has no desire to see a durable peace, to see a two-state solution.

And more

The US ambassador to the UN, Robert Wood, said Israel must respect international humanitarian law and conduct its operations in a way that minimises civilian harm.

Wood, speaking at the UN security council, said:
In every conversation we also have underscored that Israel must avoid further mass displacement of civilians in the south of Gaza, many of whom previously fled violence.

He added that civilians displaced in Gaza must be able to return as soon as conditions permit, adding that “under no circumstances would the US support forced relocation of Palestinians.”

@Efacsen that's not very hopeful then
It's likely the US will veto it
The UN head is saying its at the point of no return and sadly I agree with him

The US vetoed and the UK abstained. Shameful.

What a disgrace
They have blood on their hands

US vetoes the resolution for immediate ceasefire in GazaThe final vote is 13 members for, one abstention and one against.

So apart from them two all the other 13 members voted yes

If the US abstained like the UK would it still have gone ahead?

I think so, as long as it got a minimum of 7 votes, Not sure why UK abstains.

Probably easier to abstain than going against the US

Genocide Joe has left his legacy. I hope he ends up at The Hague too.

So sorry @Parkingt111 I'm not sure that 7 is the minimum number of votes. But if US had abstained I think there were enough votes to carry it.

Won’t this soon destroy both US and israelis goverment?
I guess they didn’t plan on people caring this much and for this long.

By now, many people, young people, have a lived expirience that democry isin’t an actual thing. That is going to create a change.

They’re also seeing (’older’ people too, but many seem to be clinging dear life to the propaganda we’ve been fed for decades) civilians being bombed left and right and center - and then being called terrorist.
While the actual terrorists in israel are crying crocodile tears and mocking Palestinians.
Biden is losing votes like crazy, who are they going to vote for in US?

Israel is going to be or already is most hated country.
And no, it has nothing to do with judaism, don’t even try.

Are they really going to burn themselves down for this?
What the hell does israel have on everyone?

How can they be so againts on what large part of population want, globally?

In prior similar conflicts, the usual excuse that leaders will use is classified intelligence and the trust me card. As we are in the 21st century, this will not work like it did in the 20th century. Unfortunately, the leaders making the decisions were all taught using the Stopping Terrorism for Dummies (c) 1989 handbook.

Israel’s military is using even more outdated military strategy. I have seen Yoav Gallant brief half a dozen times now how they are going after Hamas’ centers of gravity. That is a concept of military strategy that was written for the Napoleonic Wars based on the French Revolution of 1789. To say it is ridiculously outdated is an understatement. The urban wars like Gaza, are ones where the only true center of gravity is the host civilian populace itself. And in the centuries since Clausewitz wrote all this, it’s now a crime against humanity to fight a war in such a way.

The Labour Party need to come out now and call for a ceasefire. I think this could be a big problem for them otherwise. How the hell can we abstain on something like this, how utterly pathetic.

No humanitarian ceasefire thanks to US veto

How much worse does it need to get?
What needs to happen before enough is enough?

Over a 100 nations supported the ceasefire. But one nation stopped it

There has been a barrage of condemnation of the US after last night from many organisations. It seems this was the final nail in the coffin of their perceived moral superiority that has now been exposed to the world

This was part of a statement from Human Rights Watch which I fully agree with

By continuing to provide Israel with weapons and diplomatic cover as it commits atrocities, including collectively punishing the Palestinian civilian population in Gaza, the US risks complicity in war crimes.

Because the US and UK see what they repercussions of a ceasefire would be. More than middle class mumsnetters.

@Mousecatgame i suppose the 13 other countries who voted for a ceasefire must have formed their stance by reading opinions of middle class mumsnetters then

@Mousecatgame yes because all the other countries are uncivilised and undemocratic.... (For clarity, I'm being sarcastic!)

You do know that only the UK and USA believe they are the best and forward thinking countries in the world. But in reality they are becoming more backwards....

UK and US are well able to carry out war crimes themselves. They probably have no moral issue with it.

Definitely no moral issue with it at all you only have to look at their treatment of civilians in NI during the troubles to know that

Demonstrations again in Tel Aviv yesterday led by the freed hostages and Hostages & Missing families

And Sahar Baruch's kibbutz confirmed his death yesterday - likely sometime around mid-Nov

Otherwise no hostage or negotiation news