March against antisemitism on Sunday

[SharonEllis]

1.30 pm Royal Courts of Justice to Parliament Square

And after all these words and explanations, there are still posters saying that opposition to Israel itself isn’t a statement of, or doesn’t imply, antisemitism.

How many fucking times does it have to be said that Israel is a nation born from the Holocaust, that is the homeland of the Jewish people and that is central to the identity and lives of nearly all of world Jewry?

And that Israel is an open, liberal democracy.

Why does the left - I’m willing to believe that none of the ‘pro-Palestinian’ voices in here are far right EDL types - so detest the Jewish homeland? Because they distrust and dislike Jews.

Anti-Israel sentiment is a badge of honour among the fellow travellers.

It really does turn my stomach.

I put ‘pro-Palestinian’ in scare quotes because I don’t believe the ‘pro-Palestinian’ activists actually give a shit about Palestinian lives; they just hate Jews.

Seriously everyone knows Truly and my credibility on here isn't in question, not even slightly. However yours is hanging on by a thread literally at this point.

Couldn’t you have just answered her questions instead of blustering?

Taking inspiration from Netanyahu, we all have our idols I suppose

@Anotherdayanotherdiet to be fair a lot of the posts were statements and the questions could have been Googled. Op obviously has some knowledge due to familial history so could go and research it.
Otherwise it appears to be goady.

Bad faith actors asking 'innocent' questions to make other people do work and then claiming that they are unreasonable when they refuse to do the work is definitely a thing.

Yes from what I remember you did attract all the iffy posters from mumsnet back them. It was like a competition to see if they could knock you down a peg or two, something like that anyway.

Poor Giraffe you even got trouble off me on occasion

That is what passes for a prank these days

Not much imagination then

London was really cold today. That and lots going on Jungle thing and other programmes just started. Christmas events and prep for people to do.

Mostly the weather is why they will get less turnout though. I think they predicted this coming. Hence why when it got raining they started trying to protest in tran stations more often. However the transport police were much quicker at getting orders to ban individual station protests, then remove protesters or make arrests once they have a legal order. So that has not worked out well. Plus commuters heckled the protesters in some very embarrassing ways, which put people off.

Only the more hard-core protesters are likely to continue every weekend. However I can imagine we will still get the odd big one again

No

WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps · Yesterday 23:39

And after all these words and explanations, there are still posters saying that opposition to Israel itself isn’t a statement of, or doesn’t imply, antisemitism.

That is a ridiculous statement. That is saying that every critic of Israel is an antisemite. It effectively gives Israel the right to do anything it wants, knowing that the accusation of antisemitism can be levelled at everyone and anyone who questions their actions. That has to be nonsence.

I think there are a lot of Jewish supporters of Israel who display a kind of “siege mentality”. Their first line of defence is a default belief that any criticism of Israel simply comes from someone who has a hatred of Jews. For Israel supporters this knee-jerk reaction is comforting because it precludes having to formulate any reasoned response to any argument against the state. It is easier to simply think “ You are an antisemite, so why should I listen to your opinions ?"

I suppose we have to reach out to these people and say “It’s not your being
Jewish that I disagree with, it’s your opinions”

Whilst there are a significant number of Jews who disapprove of what Israel is doing, I suspect there are more Jewish people than you think who are actually critical of the state but cannot give outright condemnation because they feel that they would be being disloyal.

In addition, the number of times that people have been closed down with accusations of antisemitism or being a Jew-hater or that “Your real colours are showing”, has become tiresome.

No idea what you are talking about that was Star Wars.

Plus please do better than that if you what to comment on my posts

The oh you must love X or be X stupid. Everyone that reads my posts about Israeli politics knows my views on their current government. However obviously because I am Jewish and call out antisemitism you assume crap about me. Talk about stereotypes and prejudice.

Bad faith actors asking 'innocent' questions to make other people do work and then claiming that they are unreasonable when they refuse to do the work is definitely a thing.
It is unreasonable to not answer a question if you claim to know the answer. You don’t have to do any “work” (unless you’re bluffing)

I’m sorry but people who expect you to trot off and find evidence to back up their arguments, because they can’t be bothered, baffle me

No

Why not?

In addition, the number of times that people have been closed down with accusations of antisemitism or being a Jew-hater or that “Your real colours are showing”, has become tiresome.

You don't think if people have told you this a number of times you should reflect on the fact it could be your own attitude and views that could be the issue. Just saying......

Also please don't assume what Jewish people think or what we are critical of in general. That is something you don't get to do. It is Jews there.perfectly normal for Jewish people to criticize alsorts of things and very publicly. If you are a British Jew your opinion on Israel is normal not much different to your opinion on any other state/country unless you have friends or family in Israel. The only difference is we have more knowledge of Israel and the conflict than most people because we share a history with there.

Anyway stop putting words or accusations of Jewish people stopping other Jewish people from expressing their opinions. That is something that is such a Jez fan type lie it makes my want to vomit. I don't know any Jewish people that hold back on their opinion about anything (Now that is a stereotype but true)

Seriously mate you need to stop talking about Jewish people, you really do

It isn't my job to provide research sources, answer questions or educate people that have already posted rubbish. Sometimes I will naturally educate the odd user if I feel it is worth it. However it gets tiresome

The poster literally didn't know what Zionism is and yet was using it in their own posts.

It isn't up to me to explain to them. It is up to them to find out what a word or phrase actually means before using it in an argument. I wasn't the person using the word.

There problem not mine.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/02/watchdog-investigates-70-charities-anti-semitism-extremism/

It isn't my job to provide research sources, answer questions or educate people that have already posted rubbish. Sometimes I will naturally educate the odd user if I feel it is worth it. However it gets tiresome
What are you doing here then if you don’t actually want to engage with people?

Impersonating a police officer (a crime) while waving a Palestinian flag.
These peaceful protests are going well,
aren't they?

WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps · Yesterday 23:39

And after all these words and explanations, there are still posters saying that opposition to Israel itself isn’t a statement of, or doesn’t imply, antisemitism.

@quiteoldad
That is a ridiculous statement. That is saying that every critic of Israel is an antisemite. It effectively gives Israel the right to do anything it wants, knowing that the accusation of antisemitism can be levelled at everyone and anyone who questions their actions. That has to be nonsence.

It's not ridiculous! Unless your grasp of English isn't up to scratch? @quiteoldad She's NOT saying "every critic of Israel is an antisemite". People like you are doing so much damage putting words into the mouths of Jews. It's quite clear she meant opposition to Israel as a country/its people implies antisemitism. That's it! Nothing to do with government, policy or administration (which would be fine and not antisemitic!!).

I think there are a lot of Jewish supporters of Israel who display a kind of “siege mentality”.
Well done, I see you copied that from another poster, it was as rank from her as it is from you.

Also, do you, a bloke, just use Mumsnet to antagonise Jewish women? Because not only is that "tiresome", it's fucking creepy.

Quite. Forums are supposed to be about discussion/an exchange of views. And learning things. Polite questions are fair enough. If someone refuses to answer a fair polite question it is a tad frustrating. For a very short time. But all is not lost. For the refusal, especially a petulant refusal, is educational in itself. The question was an entirely reasonable one. I was also interested in an answer, particularly on the second bit.
Questions are good. The alternative of course is a forum/place where folks just shout at each other. Or preen themselves.

(edited for typo)

Forums are also places to hone in on a variety of posts, not just one particular set.

@Anotherdayanotherdiet perhaps people are choosy about who they want to engage with. I will if I think it's in good faith or I know the poster (I don't necessarily mean the same views)

I do engage with posters like I have been with you despite the personal questions about my behaviour you seem obsessed with

Similarly I did engage with that poster. However there are only so many replies and so much patience a person can have

Now do you actually want to talk about antisemitism or are you just wanting to talk about me

Well exactly and even if obviously not a good in good faith as in one of my stalkers 🙄I still engage for a short time on occasion

Seriously it is like some people think we should be at their beck and call or something

Jewish people explain this to me. Jewish person why do you not reply to all my numerous posts aimed at you individually. Why can't you repeat the same thing hundreds of times when I could just go read it on another thread or do some research of my own. Jewish person you are being mean too me/ another poster if you don't do what we ask of you.

Some people just like submissive and compliant 'Good little Jews' it seems. Not what I ever have been or will be. This is a them problem not a me problem