March against antisemitism on Sunday

[SharonEllis]

1.30 pm Royal Courts of Justice to Parliament Square

Read the thread. Its been explained over and over again and anyone who knew anything about Jews in Britain would know anyway. Israel is currently defending itself from a heinous antisemitic attack on its citizens. The war in Gaza is not about zionism for any but the most extremist minority in Israel. Any country, literally any country would have fought back against such an attack.

What about when it is being waved by people who say civilians shouldn't be murdered, by Hamas or the IDF?

No-one has suggested it's a symbol of terrorism.
I don't think Israel should not exist, nor that it shouldn't be a predominantly Jewish country. I do oppose the fact that the army of any country is allowed to wreak the utter devastation they have done, on Gaza.
I will, and always have, oppose any form of prejudice and discrimination, including antisemitism. I won't support the actions of the Israeli government.
I have opposed the actions of many governments, including Russia and our own in the UK, under various name changes over the years. A blanket accusation of antisemitism for opposing the actions of the IDF isn't accurate.

What about when those waving the Israeli flag are doing in in support of the victims of Hamas?
We could ping pong like this all night.
I don't know why this one off march caused so many people to feel unsettled. Do you?

Hmmm. I am not unsettled. But the fact I won't join a marcg displaying the Israeli flag seems to unsettle you

No, it is hijacked by people for the wrong reasons. Those people should rightly be prosecuted for supporting terrorism and calling for the eradication of Jewish people.
I don't see the Union flag as being a symbol of extremism, although many extreme right wing groups (e.g. Britain First) tried to hijack it.

Looks like you've made your stance perfectly clear, regardless of the flag situation.

@stomacharmeleon sorry, I should too. Just drives me.up.the.wall!!

Absolutely, this is a critical difference.

I didn't agree with the actions of the USA (with the support of the Uk government) after 9/11

It was horrific. But the people whom suffered from the response were innocent. And it undermined claims to be a fair and democratic country.

I understand why people want revenge, but in reality it is the innocent who suffer,,and that breeds further conflict.

Israel's killing in Gaza is making them less secure. You can't kill your way out of a political situation. Especially when you rely on being able to kill more people than your opponents, instead of having to listen to their greivances

So, the Israeli flag doesn't mean support for Israel's actions, but supports anti-semitism?

But the Palestinian flag means supporting Hamas's actions? Not the rights of Palestinians who aren't Hamas?

That seems a little conradictory?

Read it again.

As I have said, I have steered clear of demos because I don't want to be seen to support either Israel or Hamas. I would go to demos that supported the rights of Jews and Palestinians to live in peace and security.

As I see it, neither Hamas or Israel are committed to that

As far as I know no one has to attend a march. So you have a choice whether to attend or not.
I did wish to hold a flag.
Lots of people did for a variety of reasons. We cannot speak for all of them

@parksandrecs I do agree though,since time began, the innocents are the ones to suffer in war.

We all look forward to a swift resolution.

I did. You agreed that the Palestinian flag represents Hamas in certain situations. It doesn't seem to occur that people making such extreme chants have hijacked the flag. Or does the Union flag also represent right wing extremism when Britain First and similar fly it?
It is a national flag... Hamas have their own symbols and flag. Anyone waving a Palestinian flag and wishing death to all Jews is shameful and deserves to be arrested and punished by law. It doesn't represent hatred of Jews and shouldn't be used as such.

Quite frankly, after reading the description of the 45 minute video Hamas footage, I'm really not interested in the issue of flags.
That's going to be my last word on that topic.

You're right there, there is no security for civilians at the moment.

The various Israeli governments have been commited to deploying overwhelming force against the Palestinians for decades. It hasn't brought security.

Doing the same thing over and over again, and thinking 'this time the result will be different'?

Maybe look at processes such as in South Africa or Northern Ireland? Far from perfect, but a lot better than the mass death of civilians that went on for decades

Well , the guy I saw cycling down the street waving a palestinian flag with a loud whistle & making V signs on 8th October [the day after the rape and murder of Jews] sure as hell wasnt expressing his love for Jews or hopes for a peaceful resolution. National flags in themselves mean only allegiance to a nation, not a government. The Jewish flag has particular resonance because of the historic specificity of its creation.The context in which any flag is flown and the actions of the people flying it may add additional meaning and significance.

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by the 'Jewish flag'?

Do you mean the Israeli flag? If so, that's not 'the Jewish flag'. It's the Israeli flag.

The Hamas flag is not the 'Palestinian flag'

Well, the UK flag would stand for right wing extremism and racism in certain situations then, as many far right groups wave it and even use it as part of their symbolism.
I'm not a nationalist at all, where you're born is luck in a way, not something over which we have any control. A minority of extremists should never be allowed to hijack a flag and be seen as representing an entire nation, though.
I don't see the issue of a protest/march/gathering free of flags either. I think it would bring people together. However, I wouldn't want to restrict anyone's rights so that they couldn't hold an Israeli or Palestinian flag at other marches if they wish, so maybe the fairest course of action is to agree to disagree on the use of flags.

As you have said, national flags mean allegiance to a nation.

Not to an entire faith.