March against antisemitism on Sunday

[SharonEllis]

1.30 pm Royal Courts of Justice to Parliament Square

Meh.

It's a successful way of showing the world that they are irrational rabble rousers

So what is the pigging point to some of the denial or dismissing of this behaviour

because sides have been picked. Think of the denial and dismissing of what Hamas did. That same instinct.

What does the Rockefeller tree represent?

The 20-foot-high (6 meters) balsam fir, adorned with home-made garlands from the workers' families, served as a symbol of hope and optimism during the dire financial and economic times. Little did these workers know that their Christmas tree would spur a new tradition.

In December 1931, workers at the Rockefeller Center construction site put their money together for a 20-foot Christmas tree because they were thankful to have jobs during the Great Depression. The men decorated the tree with handmade garlands, streamers and ornaments made from tin cans.

Goodness these protesters really shot themselves in the foot this time

Yes, I, along with millions of other people, am opposed to any government and army that would deliberately bomb and kill thousands of innocent children and maim, bereave and make homeless many thousands more.

@Trulywonderful
More history lessons. Most of us weren’t alive in 1931. We can only control what happens today.

It might surprise you to know that it is possible to be against that and against people dicking about with swastikas.

the fact this one is focused on more than others is why I think there is a lot of anti semitism behind it for many people. Every war results in innocent people losing their homes, their lives... I am against them all equally, and all sides who contribute to them, but I don't think thats the position of everyone opposed to this war at all, based on the responses I am seeing.

There are two obvious truths about the anti-Israel (aka antisemitic) attacks on here:

one, Israel is pursued against by activists to the exclusion of any other conflict or nation state action anywhere else in the world. Off-line, this is easily seen in the relentless, single-minded campaigns organised over many, many years; and

two, if the question is asked ‘what does Israel do - and therefore Jews do - to protect itself and themselves against people sworn to kill their state and all of them, in the face of recent murder, rape, desecration and kidnapping by Hamas?’, the answer is always (some variation of) the chant “but it’s disproportionate!”. That’s despite every effort that Israel takes to warn of action; despite Hamas shielding itself behind civilians; despite Hamas’s tactics of hiding in and beneath hospitals and other facilities; despite Hamas placing rocket sites by desalination plants; despite Hamas blocking evacuation and forcing civilians back to areas warned about; despite any recognition that Hamas is a cipher for Iran’s genocidal ambitions. And on and on.

Being cynical, but frankly realistic, Israel is a whipping boy for the far left who oppose the US and its policy. However obviously reasonable and humane that policy may be.

Posters like yourself have a very one sided narrative. A lot of people are looking at the context and the history which is important. You can focus on Hamas but others choose to also look at the actions of the IDF, the far right Israeli government and its hate rhetoric, the children in prison without charge, the appalling human rights abuses and consistent breaking of international humanitarian law. Not quite so reasonable or humane. Life for Israelis prior to October 7 might have been nice but not so much for those in Gaza or the west bank for quite a few years now.

Its amazing, with all the information out there, that people can still be this simple minded. God, its drpressing.

Posters like yourself have a very one sided narrative.

Pot meet kettle.

What sort of idiot goes on a march and says ' I know burning a NYPD police hat will really help people in Gaza', that will make people do something. Violent and dumb, what a great combination.

Whilst the tweeter may not be popular with some of you, Fox has captured the
Ignorance of antisemitism perfectly, here.

An example of being too dumb to know what you're subscribing to.

twitter.com/i/status/1730526946767802520

Really? You think that righteous attention to history plays a part in what is basically loathsome political and racial opposition to Israel? Rather than opposition to god knows how many other states, and their histories around the world, including appalling things going on all over the place right now?

I do seriously wonder about the posters on MN threads who say they can’t sleep for the horrors they see from Gaza. They never mention the thousands of hours of footage of Jewish corpses being bulldozed into graves in death camps in Poland, Germany and elsewhere on our own continent. They never admit that any country under attack would defend itself.

Why the selective concern and anguish? Because Israel is Jewish.

Posters like yourself have a very one sided narrative. A lot of people are looking at the context and the history which is important.

The irony....

What on earth is a "kinda Jewish themed event"? We're the attendees dressed up in Nazi uniform fancy dress?

For peace protesters they are incredibly threatening and aggressive. And it's a shame that in recent years the Guardian seems to have given up journalism in favour of propaganda for their chosen causes.

Posters like you who support fuckwits like this to do this kinda stuff only fuel Islamophobia as you cannot seem to bring yourself to denounce this kind of behaviour at peaceful fun events. How do you think the world is starting to feel about people who behave like this?

It's also fuelling support for Israel as people are sick of this nonsense now. I would say that 90 % of people support Israel in their eradication of Hamas. They want them gone and understand what Hamas is doing to get their own civilians killed.

They employ Owen Jones as a columnist.
That says everything about the Guardian.

Everyone wants them gone even Iran and that's saying something. As demonstrated by the lack of support they are getting @ohforheavenssakedearcomeonnow

two, if the question is asked ‘what does Israel do - and therefore Jews do - to protect itself and themselves against people sworn to kill their state and all of them, in the face of recent murder, rape, desecration and kidnapping by Hamas?’, the answer is always (some variation of) the chant “but it’s disproportionate!”. That’s despite every effort that Israel takes to warn of action; despite Hamas shielding itself behind civilians; despite Hamas’s tactics of hiding in and beneath hospitals and other facilities; despite Hamas placing rocket sites by desalination plants; despite Hamas blocking evacuation and forcing civilians back to areas warned about; despite any recognition that Hamas is a cipher for Iran’s genocidal ambitions. And on and on.

I think, @WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps that there are some legitimate concerns that have become more apparent as this operation in Gaza has gone on. The civilian death toll is extraordinarily high, for various reasons including Hamas using human shields, the population density and the inability to evacuate to neighbouring countries. The threat of Hamas to Israel is of course severe, but that cannot mean a blank cheque in terms of actions taken to eliminate it. I think it is hard to be convinced that Israel is doing everything it can to limit losses when the rhetoric of the Israeli government suggests otherwise, along with their actions in the West Bank.

However, it is correct to say that there are people who were criticising Israel's response before they even took any retaliatory action, and some who were, despicably, celebrating Hamas. There's also been a shocking lack of interest in bringing Hamas to justice for its terror attack and for the ongoing hostage situation, and as time has gone on, a creeping minimisation of the actions of Hamas from some has turned into something like a sneaking regard. There is, undoubtedly, an antisemitic undertone (or even overtone) to a lot of this.

The whole situation is awful, heartbreaking, there are terrible faults on both sides, and while it is undeniably true that Hamas need to be dealt with, it's unclear if Israel's current course can continue to be tolerated. The US are already signalling a change of tactics is needed.

About half an hour drive from me. I may go the first night they light it

Show solidarity with the religious leaders that put up a good fight with the council to get the decision reversed

I hope there will be a large turnout and a peaceful event.

But what has that got to do with protesters wanting to chop down a Christmas tree?

What has that got to do with racissigns?

What has that got to do with driving cars through Jewish areas honking horns, waving flags and shouting rubbish?

What has that got to do with inciting hate for an ethic minority in the UK?

What has that got to do with coming on a thread about antisemitism and being an apologist for fuckwit behaviour by idiots on protest?

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, THAT IS WHAT!

It was be asking the wider mumsnet community rather than me not knowing the answer

You forget I bandstand a little on here