March against antisemitism on Sunday

[SharonEllis]

1.30 pm Royal Courts of Justice to Parliament Square

got to agree - things these days so often get tribal - increasingly like living in an Orwellian nightmare of hate weeks. Charges of "derailing" and "deflecting" are commonly used in certain online places these days to close down legitimate discussion/promote a single dogmatic truth which it seems all have to agree with on pain of being rounded on. Makes you wonder why some threads are started if no discussion is allowed. This is I believe meant to be a chat area, a forum. Forums are for folk to communicate (politely one hopes) I think.
Can't remember the last time I was ever TALKING to anyone one to one or in a group and heard anyone told off for apparent derailing/deflecting.

Because in real life the dynamics are different and people in the room will hear what everyone is saying. Online you can't keep track of everything and you don't know where people are coming from or whst they've said previously, unless you have tracked them somehow, which would be weird. And actually, yes, in real life I'm often in a situation in a conversation where you might say to someone 'thats not really relevant', or 'thats a slightly different issue', or 'can we come back to that'.

what I find deeply unnerving though is despite that suffering the majority of Jewish posters on these threads appear to be either supportive or defensive of what Israel is doing (at least based on the comments ive seen). Appreciate not all and there have been some Jewish posters who are not supportive and have even spoken of their participation in ceasefire marches.

Yup. Pro war, pro Israel posters go to a march where Israeli flags are being swung around and then expect us to all to believe that the march was not indeed some kind of pro war march. Perhaps the people on mumsnet are just poor representatives of the majority of people that attended, I hope they are but having read on mumsnet the views of the people that were attending then seeing all of the Israeli flags it really did have the look of a pro war march.

Like I said perhaps the representation on mumsnet is just poor and not a reflection of the general feelings of the majority present but personally when I see that the posters here who attended are those who have spent weeks excusing Israels war crimes and deflecting whenever Palestinian suffering is mentioned I am sceptical about whether their motives to attend were actually about antisemitism or whether they just wanted a chance to show their support for Israel(which of course they are entitled to do but I don't see why they wouldn't just be honest about it).

Forums have threads for a reason.
Compartmentalised topics keep forums organised.
If some members want to go off topic, it's polite to remind them.
Anymore excuses for condoning yesterday's irrational outbursts on this thread?
The whole point of Sunday's March was that Jewish people are feeling unsafe and unsupported.
I cannot speak on behalf of the OP but I doubt she expected an online safe thread to be hijacked.

@Depdawg exactly.

This entirely.

Forums have threads for a reason.
Compartmentalised topics keep forums organised.
If some members want to go off topic, it's polite to remind them.
Anymore excuses for condoning yesterday's irrational outbursts on this thread?

If that’s a response to my comment then it’s a pretty poor one
And less of the gaslighting please - “irrational”?

But by that reasoning, going to a pro-Palestinian March and waving a Palestinian flag would mean you were a-ok with Hamas?

No, it is not in response to you. An example of irrational was making reference to butcher's aprons.
Not the time nor the place so being lectured
On others about what's right, I will take with a pinch of salt.
The language was oppressive and aggressive.

Honestly, why are you here? On this thread? What drew you to come here and start ranting and raving about the war? This march and this discussion wasn’t open for anybody to come in and what-about the situation happening here.

All things regarding the conflict and antisemitism in the U.K. can be true.

I really never use this word in regards to criticism of israel and I’m wary of even saying it; but YOU? … you’re clearly just a Jew hater, and you have some real nerve coming into a group to discuss legitimate fears of British Jews who are marching for their security, totally disparate from what is happening 2500 miles away. You clearly just cannot help yourself, and I hope you have more self control in your day to day life than you have behind a keyboard.

lastly, countries aren’t all alike, the situation in Gaza is not apples for apples with the U.K. in the same way the US and the U.K. are not the ‘same.’ Nobody in 2023 should be feeling threatened in a ‘tolerant’ and ‘peaceful’ country like Britain. It is precisely people like you who contribute to the problem.
*A NOTE TO ADD

If you want to be ‘left alone’ and for people to ‘stop tagging’ you in comments, then stop wading into other people’s business with your sinister opinions

👏 👏

Do you have any thoughts of your own?

If they have spent weeks talking about how Hamas have no other choice but to kill Israeli civillians, what else are Hamas supposed to do, then I would say yeah, they probably are pro Hamas.

Like I said perhaps the representation on mumsnet is poor but it isn't just the flags, its the rhetoric that those posters have been using for weeks, excusing the attacks on schools and hospitals, excusing the killing of 1 in 200 children, it's that coupled with the Israeli flags. It isn't the Israeli flags alone. I thought that that was quite clear from my post but perhaps not.

Nobody has excused anything.
Some just have a bit more decorum.
Others start threads as a hobby, adding no new texture to a topic.

I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree on that one. Personally, I feel that I have seen a lot of excusing and very little decorum from pro Israeli posters. Anyway like we keep getting told this thread is about the march. I've expressed my feelings on it just as many posters expressed their feelings about pro ceasefire marches. I don't feel there is anything more for me to say here.

No, it is not in response to you. An example of irrational was making reference to butcher's aprons

Oh was that beachcitygirl? Cos I’m fairly certain she was a troll.

Respect.

Yes, do you?

More diversity at the Prop Pal march?#
I have linked to an article to show how wrong you are:
"Alongside Jews, Christians, Iranians and Hindus were "

So this march attracted far more diversity than the Pro Pals actually:

https://www.thejc.com/community/yesterdays-march-was-a-much-needed-expression-of-jewish-pride-wa3j9456

Article from a non Jew which sums up the rationale for this thread:

https://www.thejc.com/lets-talk/as-a-non-jew-i-will-be-marching-against-hatred-y2un44ha

And one for a celebration of diversity:

https://www.thejc.com/lets-talk/londoners-stood-with-jews-in-1936-and-we-stand-with-them-today-sibm1tj5

Fantastic work by the wonderful Eddie Marsan.

The Israeli flag at the march are NOTHING to do with the conflict - they are the symbol for solidarity with the Jewish Homeland. I think they are a beautiful and heart warming sight.

I don't know anybody or seen any posters excusing any killing. What I have seen is the refusal of many Pro Pal posters ignoring the idea that Hamas is putting their civilians in the line of fire.

Like I said to another poster we will have to agree to disagree. I personally have seen lots of 'but what else were Israel supposed to do' type posts and I can only speak from my experience as I'm sure you can yours.

That's great that you find solidarity with Israel at this time beautiful and heartwarming.