Freedom of speech you say?

[Ohlalalalala]

So it's OK for famous/ less famous people to back one side but not OK for others to back another side?

These are just a few examples of how pressures/ firings are directed at those criticising Israel. Is this normal? What the heck is happening? Is this to silence anyone from voicing what they think is the truth?

BBC News - Melissa Barrera: Actress fired from Scream 7 over Israel-Gaza posts
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-67494374

Susan Sarandon
https://deadline.com/2023/11/susan-sarandon-pro-palestinian-remarks-uta-dropped-1235632398/

Agent Maha Dakhil
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/tom-cruise-agent-maha-dakhil-palestine-b2451581.html

I would have understood if they imposed a kind of blanket gag order on all actors/ celebrities not to discuss the conflict.

But!

This is happening while hundreds of others publically supported Israel and were instead celebrated.

McCarthyite witch hunt, I say.

All of the grassroots organizations that branched off the original Zionist Movement. There's nothing conspiratorial about it, it's hardly a secret. Google Zionist organizations and you'll find many over UK and US. I think a Jewish poster said 85% of Jewish people in UK are Zionist? I don't think it's AS to say vast majority of Jewish people are Zionist, it appears to be factual (and a pp said that Zionist is a core tenet of Jewish faith for majority of followers).
Generally speaking I think it's not incorrect to say the Zionists are in a position of power, not because they are Jewish, but because they have the backing of the US and UK governments.
I have issues with the IHRA's 'working definition' of AS because I agree with many civil organizations' concerns that criticism of Israel will be conflated with AS.

@SharonEllis why is it prejudiced to talk about the Zionists? It is an ideology, shared by some Jewish people and some Christians, probably some of other faiths and some of none.
I heard someone talking about this recently, who said the original Zionist project was started by Christians, in an attempt to get rid of Jewish people from Europe. Not sure if this is true.

Maybe people shouldn't complain about the "only for Israel supporters" board then when they presumably mean the Jewish MN board.

You mean this?

https://novaramedia.com/2023/11/08/former-amnesty-official-arrested-for-satirical-placard/

Why is this satirical but Borat isn't?

Yes this one. Not remotely comparable to Borat, who satirizes actual Jewish people with stereotypes and tropes that are AS.

No, SBC uses satire in his portrayal of his fictional character, Borat, to expose and mock antisemites by reflecting the antisemitic tropes and stereotypes they themselves use back at them. It’s really not that difficult to understand unless you’re doing it deliberately.

You're right, a Jewish man satirising anti-Semites is not the same as walking around with a sign calling an antire country cunts.

Oh, they're doing it deliberately.

Sane people can join me in reporting all of the 'zionists control x,y&z threads' and hopefully get them (or this whole thread) taken down. More effective than engaging

You clearly don’t listen when Israel’s leaders talk. The war doesn’t end once hostages are released if that was your point? Everyone knows hostages could have been released ages ago. Hostages by definition were taken to be released in exchange for something, in this case Palestinian hostages in Israel’s prisons. But Israel didn’t even want to talk about it.

that was the whole point of the one sided release that Hamas did of 4 hostages previously to make it known that they want to negotiate. But negotiations don’t help Israel’s leaders self serving objectives currently.

You Think you're Wise, don't you?

Can you give an example of any civil/international conflict that ended through one sided actions like that? And then what continue the status quo of being oppressed and besieged by a bully?

What works is negotiation but Israel’s leaders (and many of its people) don’t want that. They want ‘Gaza’ and its people gone.

The irony!!!

My thread is about freedom of speech and double standards and now you come here and want to take down the whole thread for stating a fact???

That firing people/ celebrities for supporting Palestine while celebrating those who support Israel is NOT fair and doesn't represent freedom of speech.

Is this your way of trying to silence people who have a different opinion than you?

By all means report any post you find offensive for whatever reason and let MNHQ do the rest.

But don't come here and accuse everyone of being antisemitic for voicing their valid concerns about freedom of speech violations and double standards in the entertainment industry and elsewhere.

Unbelievable!

I never said it was antisemitic to say the majority of Jews are zionist. Thats a fact. Zionism just means belief in a Jewish homeland But 'The Zionists' are not a 'project' they are not an organised group or movement - they have all sorts of different ideas and objectives. All that binds them is being Jewish or supporting a Jewish homeland. Which is why bad faith actors use it as a euphemism for Jews. If you understand why it would be wrong to talk about 'The Jews' as if they were all one controlling gang, then you understand why its wrong to talk about 'The Zionists'. 'They' do not have the backing of anyone, even if many governments and individuals support the right of Israel to exist. As they support the right of other nations to exist.

Im glad to say some have been removed. I'll keep reporting.

@elfcow You sound like one of those people who joins a Netflix series from season 8. Go back and watch season 1 ep 1 before you comment.

Well put!
There are so many posters on MN who fit your description unfortunately.

@MorrisZapp @ItsRainingTacos79

What's happened about University Challenge please? I read BBC statement on X but I don't understand what's the problem with the mascot and the colours worn by one of the contestants?

I explained on the other thread why I don't like this and feel it legitimizes stereotypes/tropes. Fine for you to disagree.
@basculin for me when someone criticises a country, it's the government, not every individual who lives there. I think most people understand this?
@SharonEllis I don't think saying the Zionists is any different from the Islamists, for example. They are not one body, but have a similar overall goal/view, even if they have some differences.

@Ohlalalalala I found this which details the uproar and accusations of antisemitism at the BBC.

www.lbc.co.uk/news/university-challenge-viewers-criticise-blue-octopus-mascot/

I also read somewhere that the contestant in the hijab has been receiving hateful messages online since.

Funny how you only seem to care about anti-Semitism when it comes from a Jewish man.

And yeah if someone walked down the street with a sign calling any other country cunts, whether they mean the government or the people there, they'd probably be spoken to by the police. If someone was waving a placard that said "Palestine, what a cuntry" would you be defending it as satire?

I have issues with the IHRA's 'working definition' of AS

Wow. Shocking. I’m stunned.

I think your responses are disingenuous and fail to consider what anti-semitism is and how it has been used.

‘Zionist’ = a person who believes in the right of Jews to national self-determination.

‘The Zionist project’ implies some kind of collective action or power. It very much smacks of Jews conspiring together, acting under the radar, pulling strings. Perhaps having more loyalty to Israel than to their own country.Saying they have power because the government supports the right of self-determination is giving them a special status or more power than others, when in fact people who believe in this basic idea have no more power in this respect than any other person who believes in self-determination. Do you say that Palestinians are powerful because the UK government supports their right to have a Palestinian state?

The IHRA definition of AS does not say that criticism of Israel is always anti-Semitic but that it can be, which is pretty undeniable imo.

When I googled the zionist project what came up was a slightly dodgy looking my-first-html-project website all about how Israel should cease to exist and the whole area should belong to Palestine.

@Ohlalalalala tbh I don't care what you think. If I see statements that use anti Semitic tropes such as 'the Zionists control the media' I'll report them. Mumsnet are taking them down. If that offends your sense of what freedom of speech should look like, well, I guess I don't give a shit