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Conflict in the Middle East

Freedom of speech you say?

498 replies

Ohlalalalala · 22/11/2023 17:16

So it's OK for famous/ less famous people to back one side but not OK for others to back another side?

These are just a few examples of how pressures/ firings are directed at those criticising Israel. Is this normal? What the heck is happening? Is this to silence anyone from voicing what they think is the truth?

BBC News - Melissa Barrera: Actress fired from Scream 7 over Israel-Gaza posts
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-67494374

Susan Sarandon
https://deadline.com/2023/11/susan-sarandon-pro-palestinian-remarks-uta-dropped-1235632398/

Agent Maha Dakhil
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/tom-cruise-agent-maha-dakhil-palestine-b2451581.html

I would have understood if they imposed a kind of blanket gag order on all actors/ celebrities not to discuss the conflict.

But!

This is happening while hundreds of others publically supported Israel and were instead celebrated.

McCarthyite witch hunt, I say.

Melissa Barrera at the Los Angeles premiere of "Carmen" held at the Linwood Dunn Theatre on April 20, 2023 in Los Angeles, California

Melissa Barrera: Actress fired from Scream 7 over Israel-Gaza posts

Melissa Barrera is sacked from the film sequel for posts the production company say were antisemitic.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-67494374

OP posts:
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restabove · 28/11/2023 13:55

Ironic that I post about truth mattering, and a poster immediately comes back at me with both a lie and a smear.

Sprench · 28/11/2023 14:03

restabove · 28/11/2023 13:48

The way people focus such anger on Israel exclusively

False - check out the hundreds of Ukraine threads, the Iraq war protests etc. This is current event so will be more prevalent right now. Does not mean it is unbalanced. The current events are also horrifying, so no wonder people are speaking up.

The disproportionate use of sanctions

"Disproportionate" is a subjective term; it may be disproportionate in your personal view, but in the opinion of many, more sanctions are required; as people are horrified by what is going on in Palestine, lack of human rights, killing, torture, oppression, land stealing etc and the way Palestinians are treated as second class citizens.

I’m not talking in generalities, I’m saying that I have experienced specific people focus anger on Israel in a way that is excessive or different compared to their attitude to other countries.

Re the UN, the number of resolutions condemning Israel is orders of magnitude higher than those condemning Russia, the US, China, Iran, Venezuela etc. So I’m not making any comment on whether Israel deserves to be condemned at times, but that it seems to be the recipient of special treatment.

noblegiraffe · 28/11/2023 14:04

I didn't mention the letter in my post

So when you started talking about propaganda it wasn’t about the post I made three above yours about propaganda posted recently and uncritically on this thread, you were randomly musing about some other unnamed propaganda that you think shouldn’t be dismissed?

Ok, my apologies.

restabove · 28/11/2023 14:11

@noblegiraffe yet another smear attempt and complete bollocks.

I was agreeing with @Parkingt111 's point whereby they noted about freedom of speech and reputable sources should be able to be discussed, to which I wrote "truth matters". It was a generalised comment about both sides in general.

I guess I should have spelled out exactly for you to avoid you trying to put words in my mouth. Will try harder next time when engaging with you.

Nice try though.

noblegiraffe · 28/11/2023 14:17

Literally no idea what you are talking about, it seemed like your post directly followed from what I was saying about propaganda, seeing as it was me who mentioned it.

Perhaps next time use the quote function so it is clear who you are replying to.

Ohlalalalala · 28/11/2023 19:33

Sprench · 28/11/2023 13:15

To be honest I don’t think any of this holds up. The IHRA definition very clearly says that criticism of Israel may be anti-Semitic in some circumstances. It is clear to me that that is true. The way people focus such anger on Israel exclusively, the disproportionate use of sanctions by the UN, the use of tropes around money, power, secretive control etc.

The definition does not say, however, that all or most criticism is anti-Semitic.

I don’t really have time for this idea of ‘weaponising anti-semitism’. You could very easily say the same about things like everyday sexism or micro aggressions or critical race theory. But no one on the left is doing that, strangely.

Edited

It's explained in detail in the link. I just copied some excerpts. Excellent interview.

OP posts:
EasterIssland · 28/11/2023 22:31

She’s been silenced multiple times now

Freedom of speech you say?
Murica · 29/11/2023 00:58

"Forced" Was she? How was she forced?

Sprench · 29/11/2023 09:13

She posted inflammatory and misleading info and was criticised for it. If she really believes it she should stick to her guns.

Depdawg · 29/11/2023 09:18

Sprench · 28/11/2023 14:03

I’m not talking in generalities, I’m saying that I have experienced specific people focus anger on Israel in a way that is excessive or different compared to their attitude to other countries.

Re the UN, the number of resolutions condemning Israel is orders of magnitude higher than those condemning Russia, the US, China, Iran, Venezuela etc. So I’m not making any comment on whether Israel deserves to be condemned at times, but that it seems to be the recipient of special treatment.

This conflict is a virtue signalling
pet project or an accessory
to some. Sorry, but it's as simple as that.
That is why there is no real intellectual
debate.
It is just copy and paste. Shock, horror, probe tactics.
Threads upon threads of drama and (irrational) speculation.

SOBplus · 29/11/2023 12:28

EasterIssland · 28/11/2023 22:31

She’s been silenced multiple times now

She apologized for posting false information/lies, she wasn't silenced, it was hardly her first post and likely not the last but the post in question was a lie and she agreed to delete false information - NOT censorship.

Thankfultoyou · 03/12/2023 21:00

I thought this interview from Sky News with the Thai Hostage Negotiator was interesting.

Trulywonderful · 03/12/2023 23:50

Thankfultoyou · 03/12/2023 21:00

I thought this interview from Sky News with the Thai Hostage Negotiator was interesting.

Well he said it right there. The Thai hostages were seen as Thai Muslims and so was his team in negotiations

A complete load of rubbish about other hostages getting treated the same though. No idea if this guy knows this and is lying or hasn't spoken to the Thai hostages himself.

One Thai hostage said and it was reported by channel 12 news that Jewish hostages were treated more harshly and beaten with electric cables.

https://www.timesnownews.com/world/thai-hostage-recounts-brutal-conditions-in-hamas-captivity-says-jews-beaten-with-electric-cables-article-105606151

Thai Hostage Recounts Brutal Conditions In Hamas Captivity: Jews Beaten With Electric Cables

A recently released Thai hostage who was held captive by Hamas shared harrowing details of the ordeal, revealing harsh treatment and inadequate provisions. Speaking to Channel 12 news, the unidentified Thai foreign worker disclosed that the Israeli hos...

https://www.timesnownews.com/world/thai-hostage-recounts-brutal-conditions-in-hamas-captivity-says-jews-beaten-with-electric-cables-article-105606151

feralunderclass · 04/12/2023 05:13

Depdawg · 29/11/2023 09:18

This conflict is a virtue signalling
pet project or an accessory
to some. Sorry, but it's as simple as that.
That is why there is no real intellectual
debate.
It is just copy and paste. Shock, horror, probe tactics.
Threads upon threads of drama and (irrational) speculation.

I have yet to see you come forth with any "intellectual debate". Your first line is disgusting. There are people on here who have lost friends and family on both sides and this is the height of disrespect.

Depdawg · 04/12/2023 13:12

feralunderclass · 04/12/2023 05:13

I have yet to see you come forth with any "intellectual debate". Your first line is disgusting. There are people on here who have lost friends and family on both sides and this is the height of disrespect.

My respect is with all victims, not with virtue signallers, who block out the truth, to suit.

ChickHenLittle · 04/12/2023 13:17

feralunderclass · 04/12/2023 05:13

I have yet to see you come forth with any "intellectual debate". Your first line is disgusting. There are people on here who have lost friends and family on both sides and this is the height of disrespect.

I have to agree.
Also, FWIW, I feel posters talking about it helps, so please don't feel the need to stop due to unpleasant words from certain posters.

Thereissomelight · 10/01/2024 08:38

Above article probably belongs in the hate speech thread too. Yet another example.

StrawberriesSW1 · 10/01/2024 14:28

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XRAYTHIS · 10/01/2024 14:41

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Zezidi woman have largely been forgotten.

The terrorists levels of depravity are awful. Many of these terrorist groups have similar aims and all appear to hate women unless they submit to their medieval requirements.

XRAYTHIS · 10/01/2024 14:48

I'm not sure how good censorship of pro Palestine social media is since X, Instagram and Tic toc are full of pro Palestinian content.

Sadly, many people appear to use footage to shock and spread close up images. We all know that in wars people die yet some on social media seem to love the shock value and check nothing and spread everything. Many images proported to be from gaza are actually from Syria, although that's a different debate.

DownNative · 10/01/2024 15:58

auberginefortea · 27/11/2023 02:05

I'm genuinely shocked by the anti-semitism that's become so prevalent on this board.

That's why you take screenshots and keep them. Not necessarily to post as evidence to someone who asks on here, but you might personally want to pass certain kinds of details on to the relevant authorities. 🤔

But letting posts stand does normalise them as @SomeCatFromJapan correctly states.

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