A Textbook Case of Genocide

[Ohlalalalala]

It's been very clear from the start that Israel -through rhetoric, tactics, etc.- intended to commit the crime of genocide in Gaza.

This is so obvious now that there's absolutely no excuse to say otherwise.

Yet, shockingly, I see some posters on Mumsnet still disputing that fact, even after the best and most experienced experts in the field of genocide studies in the world confirmed it unequivocally to be so.

So, here are some links explaining in simple terms how what's been happening in Gaza is a textbook case of genocide:

A Textbook Case of Genocide
Israel has been explicit about what it’s carrying out in Gaza. Why isn’t the world listening?

https://jewishcurrents.org/a-textbook-case-of-genocide

By Raz Segal, associate professor of Holocaust and genocide studies at Stockton University and the endowed professor in the study of modern genocide.
(Note: this scholar is Jewish Israeli)

Here's another article in the Los Angeles Times where you can read the report of three leading Holocaust and genocide studies scholars: Victoria Sanford, Barry Trachtenberg and John Cox.

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2023-11-19/israel-hostages-gaza-bombing-civilians-genocide-holocaust-studies

And for those who prefer it, here's an interview with Raz Segal where he explains the situation.

The 10,000 hostages that Isreal treats horrendously in case you have forgotten, far more than hamas have.

Most genocides do not happen in a single month. Most genocides are done piecemeal, bit by bit. It’s textbook. So the fact that every Palestinian isn’t dead after 50days doesn’t mean there is no intent and no possibility of genocide. The experts are right to be concerned.

Interesting you are mentioning Darfur, Sudan as a current genocide with 9,000 killed over the past 7 months when over 10,000 Palestinians were killed in 1 month.

@youngones1 Nope not forgotten all these 10,000 hostages, because it has to be factual before one can forget/remember something

It's Israel, by the way.

People like me?

Okay

Its staggering that anyone can defend Israel's actions.

I don't get this at all.

Israel and Gaza are not the same country - people are really clear that Gaza shouldn't be considered part of Israel and get very upset about it if you suggest it is.

People from other countries can't just walk into the UK whenever they want either - you would need to apply for a work visa to come work here, you can't really just pop over from Spain for example and use the NHS.

Given Gaza is home to / governed by an organisation that is incredibly hostile to and regularly fires rockets at Israel, it seems understandable they might be cautious about who they allow over their border.

It's letting people in to Israel, not letting people out of Gaza.

Also Israel isn't the only exit from Gaza. The Rafah crossing has been controlled by Egypt and the Palestinian Authority for the best part of 20 years, not by Israel (although reasonable to argue they have had some say).

I'm not for a second saying there aren't issues with Israel but the expectation they would just let their hostile neighbours walk in and out of their country whenever they fancy seems pretty unreasonable.

How many Palestinians actually want to walk in and out of Israel? If Palestine wasn't some open air prison being controlled by Israel I doubt so many Palestinians would bother jumping through hoops to work there, it's not like they want to go over for a day trip like we might do with Ireland.

And what about all these 'settlers' in the west bank? No one seems to care that they can just go in and kick people out of their homes

@verityunreasonable completely agree. As so often Israel held to a completely different standard to any other nation. If you know you are surrounded by countries that explicitly say they want to destroy you, you will be careful who you let in. Its not just regular rockets from Gaza (fired at civilians, remember) its regular terror attacks within Israel, mostly stabbings I think. Many of the prisoners being released as part of this deal are being held for stabbings & rioting I believe. If someone stabbed your relative and was released, would you want them to just be able to walk over the border & have another go?

Exactly.

Israel and Gaza are not the same country - people are really clear that Gaza shouldn't be considered part of Israel and get very upset about it if you suggest it is.
Less unpick this.
Gaza and Israel are indeed different country therefore we are rightly upset when the former is subjected to an appalling onslaught of bombs and of deprivation of basics human rights by the latter.

People from other countries can't just walk into the UK whenever they want either - you would need to apply for a work visa to come work here, you can't really just pop over from Spain for example and use the NHS.
I think you fail to understand that the Israeli government only allows exit permit for work and hospital treatment. No one else can leave. The Gazans don't have an airport ( thanks to Israel) and their port is controlled by the Israeli navy. They are in effect under siege.

Given Gaza is home to / governed by an organisation that is incredibly hostile to and regularly fires rockets at Israel, it seems understandable they might be cautious about who they allow over their border.
Indeed but I can't recall the UK only allowing entry to Irish people to work/hospital treatment because of the IRA bombing campaign, for example.

It's letting people in to Israel, not letting people out of Gaza.
The end result is the same.

Also Israel isn't the only exit from Gaza. The Rafah crossing has been controlled by Egypt and the Palestinian Authority for the best part of 20 years, not by Israel (although reasonable to argue they have had some say).

Indeed but let me jog your memory by reminding you that under the Agreed Principles for Rafah Crossing (2005), Israel has the authority to dispute entrance to Gaza by any person. In essence, you might be able to leave Gaza but you might not be able to return.

What evidence do you have that many of the prisoners are being held for stabbing and rioting? Interested to know

Verified news reports, same as everyone else. Are you expecting me personally to have seen police/court documents? Have you? Honestly, why does this subject make everyone lose their grip on reality. Are you denying that Palestinians terror attacks within Israel?

@Thereissomelight What evidence do you have that they're not?

Or is the burden of proof on those who disagree with your viewpoint?

I wasn’t the one who stated the issue as a fact based on something they “believe”.

What I’ve heard is that many of them have been held for years without trial, including children as young as 14.

True.

Who are the Palestinian prisoners Israel released on Friday? https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/24/who-were-the-palestinian-prisoners-israel-released-on-friday

😡

one person here, persistently vocal and refusing to listen to facts is clearly recruited by the occupiers to debate nonsensically and continue with a scripted rhetoric despite evidence to the contrary. We are not here to teach facts that can easily be researched with a few keywords. It is not the eyes that are blind, it is the hearts. Leave them to their evilness

'Recruited'!! Oh dear.

'I believe' is a turn of phrase, as you well know. Its not a statement of religious belief. My meaning was that I did not have exact statistics of the break down of particular offences. Its perfectly normal to have read or heard trustworthy news reports and recall the gist of them without being able to regurgitate granular factual detail. But you know that.

I've got no particular skin in this game. I believe what Israel is currently doing is abhorrent but then so are hamas' actions. Nobody's covering themselves in glory here whilst innocent civilians on both sides suffer.

But I am interested to know why some people are so quick to condemn anything that comes from the Israeli govt as misinformation (which it may or may not be) but are so ready to uncritically believe every report from hamas?

The amount of children and babies being killed is just horrific, what Hamas did was monstrous but cannot condone the blanket bombing of thousands of civilians!

And even if people try and defend Israel’s response, how can they defend the bombing of blood banks, water reserves, bakeries, and the refusal to let in any aid (or journalists) to help the sick, injured and starving. This is targeted attacks to cause maximum suffering to the population and infrastructure of Gaza.

Israel have said that detaining individuals without charge is necessary for security purposes. More than 99% of prisoners just so happen to be Palestinian. Can we please all take the time to remember this is supposedly a civil state.

In all these arguments, why is there so little
condemnation of Hamas for its role in this conflict? It’s used aid money for its own ends and not for its citizens, it’s fired rockets into Israel, it’s outright stated its intention to commit
genocide, it uses the civilian population and hospitals etc to shield itself. It provoked this war by an atrocious attack explicitly directed at civilians, arguably in order to provoke the retaliation that is now happening.

I don’t understand how people can wave away the explicit intention of Hamas to wipe Israel off the map with an airy ‘oh don’t worry, they wouldn’t be able to’. That’s okay then!