Go raibh maith agat 🇮🇪 ❤️

[Ohlalalalala]

This is a fact and everybody knows it but it still feels so refreshing to hear it said by one of the leaders of the west. And it's not just words:

Neither Shannon Airport, nor any other Irish airport, is being used by the US military to support Israel.

EU ‘double standards’ on Israel and Palestine - Varadkar

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/leo-varadkar-israel-irish-palestine-ukraine-b2449992.html

🇮🇪 ❤️

They were shunned as they were seen to be supporting the British army. They were viewed suspiciously at times. It did not have roots in Ireland being anti semitic. In fact Ireland was a great supporter of Israel for years - they saw it as a brave little democracy this changed in time really due to the human rights abuses of the Israeli state.

Who do we need defending against? Anyway Irish neutrality is widely supported here. There has been enough blood spilt in our little country.

How are we an 'outlier'? Not in EU terms we're not (on this position).

The prevailing position in Ireland is horror at the attacks on civilians, married with equal horror at the grotesque attacks by Hamas on innocent Israelis and a recognition of a right to a proportionate reason (deliberately highlighted as of course, the IDF are being anything but)

Those of you championing Claire Daily - sweet Jesus. She's appalling. Her pro-Russian defence is beyond abhorrent.

*Daly

1. Some argue that it is difficult for Israelis to have a ceasefire when Hamas have stated they will continue to conduct atrocities like that of Oct 7th. Are we not allowed to say that in this thread? Do we have to agree with the OP?

So Israel should go after Hamas? Not the entirety of the population or place where they hide.

They get circa 4 billion US dollars per year! Surely there should be some change left over to handle Hamas?

The problem here is that both the IDF and the security forces were actually negligent. The fucked up. Big time. That is a much bigger problem for them now than Hamas.

That fuck up has lead to here.

Every article posted on the thread so far discusses Ireland having a different take on the Palestinian cause to most other countries.

@Limeandsodaontherocks Hamas are awful, they are murderers, the IDF are awful and are also murderers. I have not seen anyone defend Hamas on this thread or say they didn’t murder people. However, one group of murderers has billions of pounds worth of weapons and is currently imprisoning over 2 million people - because that is what it is, they cannot leave - all borders are shut and they are being shot like fish in a barrel. Half of them are children. Every place they are told to go and is safe suddenly becomes a target - they can’t even go to hospital when they are injured because that is the unsafest place of them all.

Hamas has 200 hostages, Israel has 2 million - one is a recognised terrorist group and the other is an elected government. That is why people are outraged - they are an elected government backed by the most powerful countries in the world. We don’t expect Hamas to be civilised - it’s a terrorist group.

The whataboutery is ridiculously strong - Israeli people were killed and it was awful and should not have happened - no matter what we say or how many people protest they cannot be saved. However, Palestinian people are at this precise moment dying and we hope that if we roar loudly enough that governments backing Israel will listen and if governments listen and withdraw their support that some people can be saved so we are roaring as loud as we can to stop the killing. If the shoe was on the other foot and there were 2 million Israelis imprisoned and being murdered believe me we would be shouting just as strongly! The vast majority of protestors just value human life and don’t want to see anyone killed - particularly not children.

Every article posted on the thread so far discusses Ireland having a different take on the Palestinian cause to most other countries.

Well, we don't.

Here you go for the actual official response, which is in line with the approach taken at UN and EU level

www.dfa.ie/our-role-policies/our-work/casestudiesarchive/2014/july/situation-in-gaza-and-israel-irelands-position/

@EnoughIsay

It's actually hard to read such utter misrepresentation of the situation.

The attacks wrought on innocent Israelis were horrendous. The attacks being carried out in retaliation by Israel are also horrendous.

The idiocy of a comment suggesting that because they receive funding from the US that somehow enables a 'solution' for Hamas to be found is hard to imagine.

I'm starting to wonder if we will need defending against the UK at some stage. Seeing that almost 2 centuries later the UK and a not insignificant proportion of their population will still cheerlead the starvation of a nation is quite chilling. One would have thought that lessons about humanity would have been learnt in that time but clearly not.

“Hamas has 200 hostages, Israel has 2 million” I did watch the instagram link posted by Ohlalalala from a Palestinian journalist. Did you see it? I wouldn’t compare the situation of the Palestinians in the instagram post to the situation of the Israeli hostages kept in tunnels by the people who murdered their families and friends.

You said “ One is a recognised terrorist group and the other is an elected government. That is why people are outraged - they are an elected government backed by the most powerful countries in the world. We don’t expect Hamas to be civilised - it’s a terrorist group. “ Actually Hamas has been the de facto government of Palestine since 2007.

Note - I’m not saying the suffering of the Palestinians isn’t real and terrible. I’m just pointing out one or two mistakes which I’m sure you will want to correct.

Perhaps you don’t know but Hamas ( the government of Palestine not just a terror group)is, like Israel , very well funded and able to spend vast amounts on weapons thanks to support from other countries such as Iran. Unfortunately ordinary Palestinians do not benefit from the money. Of course they are the victims of both Hamas and IDF.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-cash-to-crypto-global-finance-maze-israels-sights-2023-10-16/

@Limeandsodaontherocks I don’t understand how it is different - both are being held captive by people who have murdered their friends and families only for Palestinians it is approximately 20,000 people for every 1 Israeli and they are being bombed during their imprisonment. Is it that one group is Jewish and one is Muslim or why is one person’s imprisonment worse than anothers?

If anything the Israeli hostages are less likely to be killed by their captors as Hamas kidnapped them to exchange them for things so they are more valuable to them alive - the biggest risk to their lives atm is the Israeli bombs. Sure Palestinians can move about more but they have nowhere to go - they can’t leave and are trapped in a sick cat and mouse game being told to move to a “safe zone” and then having bombs drop in that area. By the way is the detention of young children in Israeli jails better or worse than the detention of Israelis in Gaza since we’re looking at who is more deserving to be saved. I don’t see how anyone can say “well the way your family was murdered wasn’t as bad as the way my family was murdered so you should be more okay with your imprisonment”. All human lives are important - no one should be imprisoned or have their lives threatened.

Hamas are a self declared government that is not recognised by Western countries as a legitimate government and has not allowed the Palestinians to elect a government - it is ludicrous to suggest they are the same as the Israeli government. The last election in Gaza was 17 years ago and they did not even get half the populations votes (44.5%). 75% of the current population of Gaza was either not born or under voting age in 2006 so approximately 11-12% of the current population may have voted for Hamas 17 years ago and hasn’t had an opportunity to vote again since. I am not voting for the guy I voted for 3/4 years ago next time as he is not the person I thought he was - I would be pretty pissed if he got to keep his post for 17 years and people were like “oh but you elected him”.

Hamas are wealthy - that again is well documented - but they do not have billions to spend in ammunition, defence systems etc… it is a completely different level.

I mean no disrespect @EarringsandLipstick. I think though that it does add to the mix.

This attack by Hamas was sick, brutal, savage. Nobody can deny that. Nobody.

Israel has a right to defend her citizens.

Again - no argument.

The yearly injection of 2.7 billion pounds for the military and secret service should be part of this discussion. Because with that amount of money their complete and utter failure on October 7th needs to be analyzed.

Within that point I would say this government of Israel - this coalition of Likud (BN) with far right religious groups, most definitely took their eye off the ball. Reform of secular courts in favor of rabbinical law was top of the agenda.

Gaza was ignored. Again. And we see then what happened.

Due to this military and security failure Israel has no option (imo) but to raze Gaza to the ground. If they do not, they become a target for every dick head regime in the region. Of those there are many.

They are kind of cornered.

And ALL civilians, no matter the side, suffer the consequences.

Due to this military and security failure Israel has no option (imo) but to raze Gaza to the ground.

Because Israel failed the only option is to raze a city of 2.3 million, including 1 million children, to the ground? Do you understand the meaning of raze to the ground? It means leave it uninhabitable. Nothing left. No living thing alive. Not one single structure. A wasteland of rubble and bones. Survivors would be displaced refugees that have been ethnically cleansed if/when Israel lets them flee. Currently, Yoav Gallant has a siege in place, no one in or out of Gaza unless on the approved list given to the Egyptians for Rafah. You can’t raze a city with the population in the city, it kills them.

Why is Israel’s one and only choice in your opinion, to commit what is defined as a crime against humanity according to the ICC?

Hamas has been the de facto government of Palestine since 2007.
@Limeandsodaontherocks small correction, Hamas is not the government of Palestine. It has the dictatorship of the Gaza Strip only. The rest of the Palestinian Occupied Territories are governed by the Palestinian Authority under President Abbas. It is a democratic representative type of government although it does not have self-rule nor is it recognised as a nation state by the UN.

What stopped Israel from attacking Palestinians for the last 75 years, including 2023, one of the bloodiest and land grabbiest years?

When you saw on news about settlers kicking people out of their homes or journalists being murdered and their funerals being attacked, or praying people in al Aqsa being tear gassed every Ramadan for the past few years - did you, silently, in your heart, object?

“Especially since Iran's appointment as Chair of that Human Rights group was only a few months after Mahsa Amini was murdered due to wearing her headscarf incorrectly.”

@Noelectricheating The UN condemned Iran in 2022 for the Hijab protest deaths. The Chair you mention is not a permanent Chair of a Human Rights Group but a chair for a twice weekly international social forum meeting where the chair rotates and in Oct 2023, over a year after Mahsa Amini’s murder, it happened to be the envoy from Iran’s turn to be the chair for a year which caused an outcry.

“UN Women statement on women’s rights in Iran
27 SEPTEMBER 2022
https://www.unwomen.org/en/news-stories/statement/2022/09/un-women-statement-on-womens-rights-in-iran
In recent days Iran has seen deep public unrest, with demonstrations and protests taking place in some 80 cities, triggered by the tragic death of Mahsa Amini, who was detained by authorities in Tehran on 13 September and died, while in custody, three days later.
UN Women stands with the women of Iran in their rightful demands to protest injustice without reprisal, and to be free to exercise their bodily autonomy, including their choice of dress and also supports them in seeking accountability, and the upholding of their basic human rights as stipulated in the Charter of the United Nations.
We call on relevant authorities to support and enable the expression of their full human rights in a safe environment without fear of violence, prosecution, or persecution. We align with the remarks by the High Commissioner for Human Rights on the need to ensure the rights to due process and release for all women who have been arbitrarily detained and with the Special Procedures of the Human Rights Council, in the call for the Iranian authorities to hold an independent, impartial, and prompt investigation into Ms Amini’s death, to make the findings of the investigation public and to hold all perpetrators accountable.

We reiterate our expression of condolences to the family of Mahsa Amini. We remain steadfast in upholding the rights of women and girls in every part of the world.“

and

Iran: UN condemns violent crackdown against hijab protests
https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/09/1128111?utm_source=UN+News+-+Newsletter&utm_campaign=659bc25dc0-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2022_09_27_03_46&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fdbf1af606-659bc25dc0-108114430
”Authorities in Iran must fully respect the rights of protestors calling for justice for Mahsa Amini, the young woman who died in custody after being arrested for allegedly violating strict dress codes, the UN human rights office, OHCHR, said on Tuesday. Later in the day, the UN chief said he was becoming "increasingly concerned" about reports of the death toll rising, "including women and children."

Why is Israel’s one and only choice in your opinion, to commit what is defined as a crime against humanity according to the ICC?

I think I explained myself very badly. I personally do not believe it the only choice but I do think this government of Israel, being what it is, sees it that way.

It is what Israel is doing right now.

It is what Israel will continue to do.

I do not say it is right, nor do I say it is good.

I know what that means and I know the name for it.

Devastating.

Well the thread isn't only about the government response. The president made some interesting remarks and the public is clearly very positive towards Palestine.

the public is clearly very positive towards Palestine.

What? Yes, there's very vocal support for the Palestinian people and what they are enduring. There is also broadly horror at the actions perpetrated by Hamas.

The thread was exactly talking about the political response to the conflict, and misunderstanding pretty much everything.

Are you Irish or living in Ireland?

I would agree that Israel’s government has this opinion and it is devastating. It why the international community needs to increase the pressure on them to do a course correction.

BBC Question Time in Northern Ireland

@Ohlalalalala wow she says it as it is! thanks for sharing. Only watched her point not the rest of the replies as yet but it was well worth watching.

Awful scenes in Dublin yesterday. Children stabbed and the far right? rioting in the city. I was in Dublin a few months ago, it's a lovely, friendly, welcoming place. I feel forvthe victims.

Although not related to Middle East conflict it demonstrates how some feel about immigration across many countries in Europe. There are growing rises in far right as seen in the Netherlands yesterday. The middle East conflict has raised both anti semitism and racism in general.

@XRAYTHIS absolutely terrible. Islamophobic hate incidents have also risen.

Does anyone have any information on the targeted Israeli goods boycott that I saw is going on in some areas of Ireland and Northern Ireland?

I saw something in passing but can't find the link now. Something about shops displaying signs that said "No Israeli goods here due to Palestine situation" as part of a boycotting campaign against what is going on in Palestine.

I saw something about a whole town that was aiming to become free of Israeli goods - Is this a thing? Or was it just something random I read on social media?