Israel has bombed the front of a hospital / 2

[Readingallnight]

Discussion re Israel’s bombing of hospitals, infrastructure and residential buildings

That's true, they can't easily escape.

But for some reason this conflict is getting a lot more attention than other conflicts. It would be good ( for the West) to think about why.

It doesn’t seem as though Biden is toning it down to me.

Genocide Joe:
“You have a circumstance where the first war crime is being committed by Hamas by having their headquarters, their military, hidden under a hospital,” Biden said. “And that’s a fact.”

https://nypost.com/2023/11/16/news/biden-backs-israeli-raid-of-al-shifa-hospital-says-hamas-committed-war-crime-with-underground-headquarters/amp/

He is vile. Funny that he said “the first
war crime” intimating that he’s aware that the IDF are committing war crimes. A Freudian slip.

I’m sure the White House will quietly withdraw the statement again, just like when Biden said he’d seen beheaded babies.

He’s a shill for the Israeli far-right.

Your reply is as if you are in the room shouting in my ear

I think you need a lie down and a Horlicks because that is a pretty extreme response to me essentially saying that I find your take flippant.

It's this part which I find most upsetting. War is awful regardless but they literally can't run away from the bombs. My brain cannot compute how anyone thinks this is legitimate self defence.

Twitter post from a British plastic surgeon in Ahli hospital. For those who don't have twitter, it says: "No longer able to provide surgeries at Ahli Hosp. The hospital is now effectively a first aid station. Hundreds of wounded now at hospital with no access to surgery. They will die from their wounds"

https://twitter.com/GhassanAbuSitt1/status/1725169957728665958

They are systematically attacking each hospital. No humanity. No excuse good enough for this behaviour.

Is Al Ahli the hospital they are attacking now? It's hard to keep up without reports coming out of Gaza. I did just see that UNWRA said there's no aid trucks from tomorrow, due to communications cut. God help them.

@stormy4319trevor reports are saying al ahli is being besieged
No food trucks and now in rafah there is no fuel left to run the sewage system
So the sewage is just flowing

There must be an intervention, surely this can't go on @Parkingt111 The pauses might help, if Israel abides by the resolution, so that aid can safely get in.

@stormy4319trevor Netanyahu has just announced they are starting phase 2. Which now includes the north and the south.
There most certainly should be an intervention but it seems like it might get worse. If it's even possible to get any worse at this stage

All this in parallel with a virtual blackout because of lack of fuel, which seems convenient. World leaders need to put their weight behind a ceasefire. It's madness.

If the following piece of news is correct, it does strongly suggest that the Shifa hospital has been used as a military base in tandem with its medical facilities.

I must stress that this has not been verified but if it is, then this hospital will not be protected by international law in terms of targets.

We will need to wait and see.

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-gaza-latest-hamas-al-shifa-hospital-sky-news-blog-live-updates-12978800

from your link

Israel's troops are still searching through al Shifa hospital – as Human Rights Watch warns they have seen no reason to revoke the facility's protections under the laws of war.
The Israel Defence Forces have claimed the hospital – Gaza's largest – is used by Hamas to run its military operations, an assertion backed by the US this week.

——
if they’ve recovered a body from one of the hostages probably Israel won’t listen and will continue in this hospital

Where is the humanity. 12000 wrongs do not make a right.

BBC quote the IDF as saying the body was found in "a house near the hospital" (emphasis mine) so that does not evidence that Shifa was used inappropriately.

The picture of a hole in the ground remains just that at this stage - no independent corroboration and we don't really know what it is.

Critics reject Israeli claim al-Shifa Hospital used as Hamas command centre https://www.aljazeera.com/program/inside-story/2023/11/16/critics-reject-israeli-claim-al-shifa-hospital-used-as-hamas-command-centre

Israel has long accused Hamas of using the al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza as a cover for its military operations.
Israeli forces have raided the al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City for the second consecutive day, following days of encircling the largest medical facility in Gaza.

They claim to have found what they call “grab bags” containing weapons and uniforms belonging to Hamas fighters.

But many observers have questioned what Israeli forces presented as evidence.

And there are fears that with the Israeli military in sole control of the operation, it could fabricate evidence to bolster its allegations.

Several experts have also argued that attacking hospitals – especially those treating critically ill patients and babies – could be a war crime as defined under international law.

Presenter: James Bays

Guests:

Erik Fosse – CEO of the Norwegian Aid Committee; has worked as a surgeon in Gaza during several wars since 1994

A Kayum Ahmed – special adviser on the right to health at Human Rights Watch

Thomas MacManus – Director of the International State Crime Initiative, Queen Mary University of London

Motorina· Today 22:41
BBC quote the IDF as saying the body was found in "a house near the hospital" (emphasis mine) so that does not evidence that Shifa was used inappropriately

It was also called rather vaguely ‘a structure’:
“The Israeli army says soldiers near Al-Shifa Hospital have found the body of Yehudit Weiss, who was kidnapped from the kibbutz of Be'eri on October 7. The body was recovered from what the army called a "structure" near the medical facility.”
www.cnn.com › live-news

Feedback

I'm really unsure about any IDF claims now. This is why we need independent verification of things.

So why. Why do you think that is?

Who was Yehudit Weiss

Remember that 'body' is a person who was forcibly abducted after Hamas murdered her husband.

She was a kindergarten teacher working in the dining rooms of the kibbutz. A trained nurse.

She was a mother of live, four of whom lived in Israel and survived.

She was a breast cancer sufferer, was on medication and radiotherapy. She had nothing with her.

She was a 'loving Full time grandmother' who liked cooking and baking, reading books and travelling.

Please Don't dehumanise her but referring to her as 'the body' she was a person. A person abducted by Hamas.

Nobody other than the US government is backing that there is evidence (even they don’t say enough evidence to make it a current legitimate target) and they basically gave the go ahead for this so they have dug themselves into a massive hole. They can’t say oh whoopsy we got it wrong. Even if there is eventually evidence to back these claims my understanding is that the Israeli government have still committed war crimes because of the way this has been conducted. Their actions haven’t been proportionate and they haven’t made REAL efforts to protect the lives of the people in there and allow for an evacuation that could actually work. They also before this were in the words of the US ‘indiscriminate’. People are now going to die of starvation.

Every life lost is a tragedy. Not a body, not a number.

No news from any of the 3 hospitals being discussed yesterday - telecoms companies have been appealing for fuel to end the telecom blackout

But worse for Gaza's people no news either of what is happening to them their families and friends - not even a morning call to check if loved ones survived the night

They won't know that distribution of humanitarian aid from Egypt is stopping because of lack of fuel and communication. Or hear UN, WHO's fine words and exhortations going unheeded. Or see the supportive marches around the world. Or know anything outside their shattered communities

And there will be no more horrific pictures or testaments to their suffering from them or NGOs on the ground - just official IDF updates and news from embedded journalists whose copy has met with IDF approval and Hamas updates

There's a verified photo of overnight bombing damage in Khan Younis dated today in the Guardian so maybe the smaller telecom companies are still active? or the material was carried by hand to Rafah to be sent from Egypt?

Otherwise can see no news from today from Gaza