I have a question about Palestinian children.

[Rainbowsandbutterflies1990]

What I've been wondering if an innocent child has just had their whole family killed by a bomb, there whole city bombed so they have nothing, how r they going to not being against who is bombing them. There is going to be trauma. They could be against what hamas belives, but they equally could be angry and understandably just in being anti Israel (goverment as that's who is carrying out this) how is it realistic to expect the Palestinians to be happy Israel is taking out hamas. And killing their families, their friends and flattening their cities in the process.

I copied this from another thread as think it's a valid question I have no idea why it's highlighted.

I think it because that is what President Biden has said to the news. Of course, he and his mouthpieces could be lying, but the fact of them briefing it to the world at large is a type of public pushing back.

@SomeoneBurntTheToastAgain well it's not though is it? Or do we only care about children one side of that fence? War is affecting them all.

WarmWinterSun · Yesterday 18:51
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Equally, why would they support Hamas for its evil and idiotic attack on Israel, it’s mandate to wipe out all Jews”

Because as they will see it, Israel killed their family. Obviously.

Agreed, I thought @EsmaCannonball 's post was (typically of them) interesting and thoughtful. Unfortunately, these threads are swiftly taken over by posters who bully anyone not participating in their banner-waving.

This has nothing to do with the original question- Palestinian children

I am sorry you have felt bullied @Alcemeg
If you feel that posts are not appropriate- you should report them.

There has been some vigorous debate in this forum- and there are clearly different opinions. It’s great that we live in a Democracy and have a legal system that overall supports this.

"Some people are just committed jihadists, they don't have some poetic origin story. Jihadists have felt this way about Jewish people for centuries." - @EsmaCannonball

If there are so many "committed jihadists" in the region who are hell bent on destroying Jews and have been "for centuries" then how were the Jews of the region able to maintain a continuous presence there in all the years before Israel's creation?

I am also grateful we live in a country where we can have different views. it is one reason people flock to the UK. I support Israel in this and some support the other side.

Pakistan is currently expelling 1.7m Afghans who are undocumented by the way (as is Iran) (so not too many fewer than the 2m people who are in Gaza) because in part they are causing too many terror attacks or so Pakistan says (a country to which the UK spends £300m a year in aid). We are certainly ploughing a lot more into Muslim countries than the one Jewish country on the planet.

@Xenia
Except the Israel-Palestine conflict is not about Jews Vs Muslims. It's about land. If it had been Scientologists (with the full support of the Western world) on a quest for a homeland who displaced the Palestinians, the result would have been no different.

For many of the preceding centuries there was a 'colonial empire' - the Ottoman empire - which kept order and maintained relationships. That doesn't mean nothing happened (the Damascus affair is the most famous example of pogroms and torture of jews across the middle east - in the 1840s) but it was much rarer.

But after the Ottoman empire was dismantled after WWI - but before the creation of the Jewish state - there was a very big rise in attacks against Jews in the Middle East. In the 1930s and 40s (before 1948) there were attacks in Libya, Egypt, Syria, Yemen.

In Iraq in 1941 mobs sought out and massacred as many Jewish families as they could.

But yes it did get much worse after the state of Israel was created - this is an interesting article on what happened to Iraqi jews.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/the-expulsion-that-backfired-when-iraq-kicked-out-its-jews/

It is true though that the major expulsion of Jews from the Arab world (mostly, but not all, into Israel) - about 900,000 of them - occurred after the creation of Israel as a state. All those people lost their assets and property - many were forced to sign papers that they were agreeing to all their property being confiscated.

Today over half of the people in Israel are middle eastern in origin.

On the original question though - I agree, it is hard to see these children in Gaza growing up with anything but loathing for Israel and that is a tragedy.

@iap So the Ottoman Empire was a group of "committed jihadists"?

no...I think you may not have understood my post.

I understood your post@iap , and thanks for posting. But my original comment was in response to @EsmaCannonball 's claim that the region has always been full of "committed jihadists" whose only interest in life is to kill Jews. Others on MN have said this hatred of Jews is in "the DNA" of every Palestinian.

I think there were three things in this exchange. The first is that most Muslims, and most Palestinians, are not inherently 'jihadist'. That's definitely true. There's no reason Muslims and Jews cannot live peacefuly - the 20% of the Israeli population that is Arab/Palestinian, do (this is separate from the people living in the West Bank). Muslims defended Jewish families on October 7th in Israel.

The second is that it was only after the creation of Israel that Jews were seriously threatened in the middle east. That definitely isn't true - though it did become much worse.

The third is whether 'jihadists' (which is not the term that would have been used) - by which I assume we mean people who are extreme in their religious ideology and see violence as a core method of achieving their aims - have always existed. Yes, though whether they're a small minority or actually part of a state changes over time. The Ottoman empire was a force for stability and control.

It's interesting u never actually responded to my reply to ur post implying all children who have been brought up in Palestine would automatically join Hamas which I suggested it is incorrect to assume this. And surely its human natural to be angry and hurt and have trauma due to Israeli soldiers wiping out their family members and friends and cities and not some indoctrination or radicalisation that happens. And they won't be pleased or grateful.

I can't pretend to understand the long and complicated history of mutual hatred, but I think this sort of attitude is to some extent explained by (a) the ferocious savagery of the 7 Oct massacre; (b) enthusiastic participation in it of what appear to be ordinary Gazans; (c) jubilant celebration of it in the streets of Gaza and around the world; and (d) the apparent absence of any Palestinian "Not in my name!" denouncement.

Of course, it could be an entirely unfounded prejudice; I'm just pointing to how such notions, however unfair, might arise.

And yes certainly lucky. It's lucky we r not currently sitting in a pile of rubble with members of our family , friends and cities wiped out and we have to navigate life , it purely luck that we r not these people. We just have happened to just been born into a country where we can live freely , practice religion or not practice as I'm Atheist freely. And not being bombed .

Absolutely. And not living in fear of being hunted down for hours, raped, tortured, burned alive, beheaded, mutilated, and all this livestreamed on social media.

Hope you know that this applies to Israel as well as Palestine

Yes this defies Israel more than anything there's no evidence of beheaded babies. Whereas whats happening in gaza and the west bank IDF raiding homes killng palestinians. You have government officials of Israel calling for the flattening of gaza when half of the population are children. The nurse who travelled back from gaza hearing her account

The next generation of traumatised, angry and vengeful people has been created. It’s utterly tragic . I was in Israel in the 80s and was shocked to see Palestinian and Israeli children stood in the road, throwing stones at each other. Both brought up to hate the other.

I’m Jewish and my family left Lithuania during the pogroms. The ones who couldn’t get out, were killed. The mental health issues caused by the fear, trauma, uncertainty etc, have rippled through the generations on both sides of the family, to the present day - anxiety disorders, depression, OCD, poor physical health, ADHD.

Unless extremists on both sides are prepared to acknowledge the rights of each other, this will never end. Just a constant needless stoking of horror, hatred, trauma, poverty, life changing injury and death, thanks to the intransigence of leaders brought up with all those things.

Except the Israel-Palestine conflict is not about Jews Vs Muslims. It's about land.

This.

One. One person said this. It was rightly reported and deleted. And it referred to Gazans. You know this.
I can never quite work out what you’re getting at, with all this talk of “Others on MN” and “Some on MN” (is there some commonality between these posters you always object to?) often paired with sweeping generalisations, historical revisionism, prejudice or complete falsity and a complaint that free speech these days just ain’t what it used to be.

Can you be more specific, please?