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Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

Hatred of the Jewish Community

112 replies

Yoohoo778611 · 31/10/2023 09:19

Im not as educated as some people. Can't understand why in this day and age
people should be at war. I'm not on anyone's side. I feel so sad for the innocent people in this conflict. I know it's a couldren in the middle east.
But how can Hamas and Iserael think what they are doing is right.

Can someone tell me why the Jews have been hated since the beginning of time.
Wandering the deserd according to the bible.
Even in Shakespeare think 'merchant of Venice'
Just in the modern times think 'Hitler' who tried to destroy them.
Last night somewhere in Russia a plane from Iserael was stormed and the mob wanted to kill the Jews on board.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
TeacupKitty · 31/10/2023 10:00

As a Muslim I can identify with a lot of this post, there is definitely a dislike of anyone doing things differently particularly if outwardly practising a religion. Unfortunately it’s so much a part of everyday life I don’t even identify it by a name as such, just a subtle feeling of ‘othering’ and unease. But I guess it is antisemitism or anti-Muslim feeling (I won’t use the watered down term Islamophobia any more)

ticketstickets · 31/10/2023 10:01

lavender2023 · 31/10/2023 09:57

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2023/10/16/b8bd3/1

I wouldn't say British sentiment is avowedly pro Palestine either, outside of social media, 62% of British people based on polls are not picking a side, they either don't know or they sympathise with both sides equally.

As a Jewish person, I have always felt a lot of antisemitism in the Uk is based on a dislike of religion. People don't understand why someone like me identifies with a religion and I am a liberal Jew. We are an atheist/agnostic country. It is a lot worse for a Jewish person who only eats kosher food with a hechsher and doesn't use electricity on saturday. Even if you aren't religious, people are suspicious of atheists who identify as Jews as they assume that they can't separate cultural judaism from the religion. There are no cultural christians lol as christianity is faith based unlike Judaism which can also be a cultural identity.

Show quote history

There are absolutely cultural Christians. Many people celebrate Christmas and get married in Churches who may not be religious in any other way.

MrsSkylerWhite · 31/10/2023 10:01

etmoietmoietmoi · Today 09:25

FFS. Is this the new "forgive my ignorance"?”

Unnecessary. It’s a fair question and I imagine most people with no interest either way are also “ignorant” about the history of the Jewish people.

OP: there’s a very good series on this topic by Simon Scharma on iplayer. About 10 years old. I can’t remember its exact title but if you just search his name it should come up.

ticketstickets · 31/10/2023 10:03

TeacupKitty · 31/10/2023 10:00

As a Muslim I can identify with a lot of this post, there is definitely a dislike of anyone doing things differently particularly if outwardly practising a religion. Unfortunately it’s so much a part of everyday life I don’t even identify it by a name as such, just a subtle feeling of ‘othering’ and unease. But I guess it is antisemitism or anti-Muslim feeling (I won’t use the watered down term Islamophobia any more)

What is wrong with the term Islamaphobia? At least it is more accurate then the term antisemite. What would you use instead?

lavender2023 · 31/10/2023 10:03

ticketstickets · 31/10/2023 10:01

There are absolutely cultural Christians. Many people celebrate Christmas and get married in Churches who may not be religious in any other way.

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Well I feel that cos celebrating Christmas is mainstream and commercialised (even i exchange presents and have a tiny christmas tree which i call a hannukah bush lol), people get away with it. I once brought a box of matzah with me on a political canvassing day during passover and people were quite judgy. Keeping passover can absolutely be cultural, its kinda like our Christmas in a sense. But people think i am very religious just because I keep passover.

MrsSkylerWhite · 31/10/2023 10:03

1dayatatime · Today 09:43

Yoohoo778611 · Today 09:30

@etmoietmoietmoi are you one of the famous Mumsnet bullies.
**
No but this is a suspicious post claiming faux ignorance.

Why? Most non-Jewish people know very little of the history of the Jewish people. Nothing “faux” about that.

1dayatatime · 31/10/2023 10:05

@MrsSkylerWhite

"Unnecessary. It’s a fair question and I imagine most people with no interest either way are also “ignorant” about the history of the Jewish people."

+++

Except that there has been a very suspiciously high volume of posts on this topic that start with :

"Excuse my ignorance but could someone please explain [insert something controversial].

My concern is that this is "faux ignorance" and intended to whip up unhelpful and hateful opinions rather than genuinely inform.

Kendodd · 31/10/2023 10:06

ticketstickets · 31/10/2023 10:01

There are absolutely cultural Christians. Many people celebrate Christmas and get married in Churches who may not be religious in any other way.

Show quote history

I'm an atheist of (diluted) Jewish heritage and describe myself as a cultural Christian because I celebrate Christian festivals.

crimsonfleet · 31/10/2023 10:08

TeacupKitty · 31/10/2023 09:53

I actually think this thread is actually going to bring up a lot of antisemitic tropes and cause upset. I am just as appalled by anti semitism as any other form of racism.

You mean like blaming anti-Semitism on Israel and not thr actual anti-Semites?

MrsSkylerWhite · 31/10/2023 10:09

1dayatatime

My concern is that this is "faux ignorance" and intended to whip up unhelpful and hateful opinions rather than genuinely inform.

If that was OP’s intention, it’s failed spectacularly. Informative thread.

crimsonfleet · 31/10/2023 10:10

NmeChngeFail · 31/10/2023 09:57

I disagree, antisemitism is seen as the worst.

You could be racist, disabilist and islamophobic and still keep your job.

Even on threads here, look how long a thread which is racist against black people gets to stand.

Newspapers can post racist stories and images and get away with it. See many racist cartoon portrayals and articles. Then see if someone will get away posting something antisemitic, they would get fired straight away.

Being called antisemitic is the biggest stain of someone's character and image after that its transphobia.

Anti-semetism is racism.

1dayatatime · 31/10/2023 10:10

@MrsSkylerWhite

"Why? Most non-Jewish people know very little of the history of the Jewish people. Nothing “faux” about that."

+++

I would suggest that you look at the title and opening paragraph on other threads regarding this topic and see how many start with "excuse may ignorance ", " I don't know much about " "I'm not well educated on ".

A coincidence?

Kendodd · 31/10/2023 10:11

MrsSkylerWhite · 31/10/2023 10:01

etmoietmoietmoi · Today 09:25

FFS. Is this the new "forgive my ignorance"?”

Unnecessary. It’s a fair question and I imagine most people with no interest either way are also “ignorant” about the history of the Jewish people.

OP: there’s a very good series on this topic by Simon Scharma on iplayer. About 10 years old. I can’t remember its exact title but if you just search his name it should come up.

If you remember the name of that series please post it and tag me in.

MatthewsMumFromTikTok · 31/10/2023 10:12

etmoietmoietmoi · 31/10/2023 09:25

FFS. Is this the new "forgive my ignorance"?

Who cares?

Just answer questions if you know the answer...

WomanOfTheWoods · 31/10/2023 10:12

I came across this recently from 2016. I thought it was quite interesting:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/why-do-people-hate-jews-and-judaism-commentary/2015/05/21/52f934e8-ffd8-11e4-8c77-bf274685e1df_story.html

I married into a Muslim community and used to be very shocked at the casual hatred of Jews, when challenged they could not give a coherent answer as to why they hated them. It was indoctrinated from childhood. Obviously a generalisation but also my experience.

MrsSkylerWhite · 31/10/2023 10:14

It’s called The Story of the Jews, @Kendodd . Everyone on this thread who is interested should watch it. I always find him very balanced and informative.

Kendodd · 31/10/2023 10:14

crimsonfleet · 31/10/2023 10:10

Anti-semetism is racism.

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I think if you are a member of the Tory party you can absolutely get away with the most blatant racism . And have it cheered by the press and public.

Kendodd · 31/10/2023 10:15

MrsSkylerWhite · 31/10/2023 10:14

It’s called The Story of the Jews, @Kendodd . Everyone on this thread who is interested should watch it. I always find him very balanced and informative.

Thank you! I'll have a look.

Kendodd · 31/10/2023 10:17

WomanOfTheWoods · 31/10/2023 10:12

I came across this recently from 2016. I thought it was quite interesting:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/why-do-people-hate-jews-and-judaism-commentary/2015/05/21/52f934e8-ffd8-11e4-8c77-bf274685e1df_story.html

I married into a Muslim community and used to be very shocked at the casual hatred of Jews, when challenged they could not give a coherent answer as to why they hated them. It was indoctrinated from childhood. Obviously a generalisation but also my experience.

Did anyone change their options after you challenged them?

MrsJellybee · 31/10/2023 10:19

WomanOfTheWoods · 31/10/2023 10:12

I came across this recently from 2016. I thought it was quite interesting:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/why-do-people-hate-jews-and-judaism-commentary/2015/05/21/52f934e8-ffd8-11e4-8c77-bf274685e1df_story.html

I married into a Muslim community and used to be very shocked at the casual hatred of Jews, when challenged they could not give a coherent answer as to why they hated them. It was indoctrinated from childhood. Obviously a generalisation but also my experience.

It’s a hatred almost as old as Cane and Abel. Muslims believe they are descended from Ishmael, Abraham’s first wife (the Torah and Bible say handmaiden). When Sarah became pregnant at an advanced age and gave birth to Abraham’s son, Isaac, he became the favoured son and the ancestor of the Jewish people. Ishmael and Hagar were cast into the desert, but ultimately saved by God. People who believe in the literal truths of these stories will have animosity.

iamnitongoogle · 31/10/2023 10:21

I'm curious too. I've also noticed that politicians get away with anti-Muslim comments, but not anti semitism. Why is anti semitism seen as worse - is this solely because of European history?

smilesup · 31/10/2023 10:25

iamnitongoogle · 31/10/2023 10:21

I'm curious too. I've also noticed that politicians get away with anti-Muslim comments, but not anti semitism. Why is anti semitism seen as worse - is this solely because of European history?

I have thought about this a lot. I think it tends to be the right of the right that can be islamaphobic and the left of the left that can be antisemitic.
The right have much more control of the media and government in the UK so get an easier ride for their hatred than the left.
Both are equally as abhorrent.

TheyclosedmyCosta · 31/10/2023 10:30

Can someone tell me why the Jews have been hated since the beginning of time

Scqpegoating probably

Peterpiperspickledpepper · 31/10/2023 10:33

If the post is in good faith then it’s an interesting question.
Here is an accessible and interesting article
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/anti-semitism-101/
https://www.ajc.org/news/10-tough-questions-on-antisemitism-explained
David Badiel’s book Jews don’t count is also thought provoking.
Excuse the picture that goes with this, it’s the headline for the article.

Antisemitism 101 | My Jewish Learning

Antisemitism is the term used to refer to prejudice or discrimination directed against Jews. The term was coined in the ...

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/anti-semitism-101/

Parkingt111 · 31/10/2023 10:34

MrsJellybee · 31/10/2023 10:19

It’s a hatred almost as old as Cane and Abel. Muslims believe they are descended from Ishmael, Abraham’s first wife (the Torah and Bible say handmaiden). When Sarah became pregnant at an advanced age and gave birth to Abraham’s son, Isaac, he became the favoured son and the ancestor of the Jewish people. Ishmael and Hagar were cast into the desert, but ultimately saved by God. People who believe in the literal truths of these stories will have animosity.

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As a Muslim I have never once heard in my life that Muslims hate Jews because the prophet Ishaq become the favoured son (nor is there any reference in our scripture of one son being favoured over another
The prophets Ishaq and Isma'il may peace be upon them are both highly respected prophets amongst Muslims.