To think Israel won't exist much longer?

[sergeantsalt]

Support in the west is declining, and when Israel doesn't have weapons and defense funding they won't be able to defend against their neighbouring countries on their own. AIBU to wonder how much longer it can exist given they are losing support?

Trying looking on Twitter - the number of missiles heading into Israel night before last was enormous. If Israel didn't have the Iron Dome, there would have been complete carnage.

What on earth did Hamas expect? Having seen the interview with their leader on Saudi TV this morning, they appear to be shrugging and saying that millions died in Russia and Vietnam and the Palestinian people need to make the same sacrifice... they don't care about their own people and are happy to use them as human shields.

Israel has the right to protect herself and international law is on Israel's side.

Yes.

Armenians in Nagorny Karabakh, just a few weeks ago.

No one cares.

I think OP is being goady or living in La La land. There is inadequate worldwide support for Gaza and the Palestinians in general , including by their Arab neighbours. Very soon Gaza will cease to exist.

Of course the conflict is about more than that. THe conlfi t started about 4000 years ago in a fight over land then over holy lands and on and on it goes.

However right now, at this moment Israel has capitalized on the Hamas attack (which the IDF allowed to happen and may themselves have added fuel to) to try to wipe out Gaza. There is a callous indifference to human life in Gaza. The warnings are not warnings when people have nowhere to go and when safe / refugee gathering spots are also bombed. Palestinians are in a Gaza cage - they can't heed warning. In addition to those killed, the number injured is in the tens of thousands now. For some people - the loss of human life on a mass scale of primarily innocent people is not okay. Be it in Ukraine or in Gaza or anywhere. Others are accepting it as the price of war. Others see Israel taking opportunity to do what they have wanted to do for a long time. Israel is methodical. It has to walk a fine line. The west will turn a blind eye to Israel commiting war crimes to a certain degree as long as they keep deflecting intention and ill motivation, however that isn't a blanket approval to obliterate all life in Gaza and so Israel knows they have to move slowly. This war will go on for awhile. Given the death, injuries and destruction we have seen before the real war on the ground has even started - this is the tip of the iceberg.

Nagorno-Karabakh is historically Azeri territory. The Armenians all left and there was minimal loss of life. Even in 2020 loss of life was low thousands and mainly military…

Israel/Palestine and NK situations are not comparable. To try and compare them is grossly offensive to the people of Palestine and Israel.

Ultimately, international politics is not as black and white as people in mumsnet want to believe a pretending otherwise is just ridiculous.

“Palestine supports Hamas and they have thrived in Palestine, that's the biggest evidence of how much Palestine supports Hamas. Palestinian across the world burning Israel's flags and chanting so offensive things for Jews and their antisemitism is a proof why hate shouldn't exist for the only Jewish national in the world. Israel is quite rightly protecting itself and it's people. Every country should learn from Israel on how to defend themselves”

Nothing you have said here is accurate @Sleepybuny

And for accuracy sake, Gaza hasn’t had a free election in 17 years and there is zero evidence that they unequivocally support Hamas. They are a terrorist organisation that has also terrorised Palestinians.

This thread is full of conspiracy theory language, anti semitic tropes, and social media law degrees. It's really painful to read all this sheep, wake up! And the automatic belief in the truth of information and numbers of deaths being released from both side (excepting the victims of the initial Hamas attack, which is not up for debate due to their diligence in recording their crimes).

That's a slightly mindless statement. Although I understand the sentiment he's trying to portray.

If Israel didn't exist (for arguments sake, let's say the area had had a totally different history since ~1917), there would be another country there. Who knows which, there's no way of knowing that.
Is Biden saying that if that was the case, America would invade to take the land to create a Jewish state?

Saying that he'd create one is a glib platitude.
It's far more meaningful and relevant to say that you'd never let Israel cease to exist (which to be fair I assume he has also said).

OK, OP - so you are fully in support of the action of wiping out the state of Israel... Which is a hate crime to state so and quite a few have been arrested in UK for as much.

Meanwhile, on land Mumsnet, posts about the problems that feral domestic cats bring, get removed as "goady". If this thread is not goady (and in fact hate-inciting) , then I don't know what is!

Mumsnet, give Israel&Palestine topics their own dirty corner of the site!

You are as stupid and ignorant as your post. Palestine supports Hamas and they have thrived in Palestine, that's the biggest evidence of how much Palestine supports Hamas. you’re the one showing ignorance and zero knowledge , have you seen any Fateh party members support Hamas?

The OP is showing a staggering lack of understanding of the conflict, political and economic forces.

So what you're saying here is that Israel shouldn't exist? Interesting take on it all

Cheering and celebrating in the streets at the news of the attacks on Israelis, handing out sweets, cheering whilst hostages are paraded through the streets?

Ah but is it factually correct though ?

No.

There are 2- 3 million Palestinians living in Israel, many as citizens - these people are being referred to and have been referred to as Israeli-Arabs. That is a fact. It has been written about fairly extensively. In surveys done with these Palestinians in Israel - about 2/3 continue privately to identify as Palestinian even though they can't do so publicly. The other third have accepted that the loss of their Palestinian identity is the price to pay for feeling safer and more accepted in Israel as Arab citizens and so they choose to identify as Israeli-Arab. However Israel refers to all these people (Palestinians citizens in Israel) as Israeli Arabs. The term is even being used in this thread and in others on this board when talking about Palestinians in Israel.

Again, these are facts. So denying them is really just ignorance.

Or disrupt international politics and relations.

especially the peace process between Israel and various Muslim nations.

*Or disrupt international politics and relations.

especially the peace process between Israel and various Muslim nations.*

Quite. And they couldn't give less of a shit about civilian casualties, in fact the more the better for the purposes of disruption.

do people really think this conflict is simple and it’s just about mean Israel and Palestinian victims …please give it a rest.

tbf it’s not as if there aren’t any posters who think Israel are the victims and the Palestinians have no-one to blame but themselves (what with Israel having done NOTHING WRONG and all)

No one in their right mind thinks what Hamas did and has done its acceptable. I wish for no harm to any innocent Israeli’s or Jews. I worry for Jews across the world as racist attacks are on the rise, might I add as they are for Muslims.

But what Israel are doing to innocent Gazan civilians is absolutely abhorrent. No power, no internet, no supplies. Hospitals and schools bombed. Israel will flatten Gaza and the west will do nothing as they are doing now. Beautiful children are getting hurt on BOTH sides and it is wrong, but it’s clear Israeli’s have a better chance of survival that Palestinians.

Take away the politics, no innocent people just trying to live their lives should have to suffer this way.

Hamas, the Israeli government, the US and UK government's have no regard for human life the whole lot of them are disgusting.

Yet, if you say you stand with Israel, you are vilified.

No, Israel will continue to exist as long as the US provides it support, which it always will (support for Israel is one of the few issues in America which gets cross party support), or until some rogue nation like Iran or Syria develops nuclear weapons, which God forbid never happens.

By the way, I hate Hamas and I hate Netanyahu's govt. My sympathies are with the innocent Palestinian and Israeli citizens on both sides who want to live in peace but are caught in the middle of these 2 groups of psychopaths.

If israel didn’t exist then the region would probably be another Muslim country, with poor economics, poor infrastructure, an autocratic regime of rich men governing for decades, a lack of human rights, no rights for women and gay people at all. Internal strife. Terrorist factions. Refugees going to the west. A bit like the neighbours.

I absolutely agree.

hamas doesn’t care about the lives of Palestinian citizens.
They’re quite prepared to sacrifice Palestinian babies (and anyone else) if it suits their agenda.