To think Israel won't exist much longer?

[sergeantsalt]

Support in the west is declining, and when Israel doesn't have weapons and defense funding they won't be able to defend against their neighbouring countries on their own. AIBU to wonder how much longer it can exist given they are losing support?

Don't assume that purple haired people with Palestine flags in their twitter bios represent the majority of public opinion.

Yes because normal people support genocide of innocent babies.

@laladoodoo are you saying no babies or children were murdered by Hamas 3 weeks ago? The situation is dreadful on both sides and many many many innocent humans have died on both sides of the conflict.

Public opinion is irrelevant to foreign policy and arms manufacturers. Israel is strategically important to the US etc.

It's also bizarre to look at the current situation where Gaza is under bombardment; has no food or water or utilities and think it's Israel that will disappear.
It's Gaza that isn't going to exist.

Staying well away from all the stuff more than adequately covered elsewhere... on what planet do you think Israel is losing support or that it will not continue to receive arms and defense support? Not happened. Not going to happen.

The US is not going to abandon support for the state of Israel

I totally agree and in no way am I condoning Hamas at all!
But how is the continuing retaliation towards innocent people helping in any way? And our leaders condoning and supporting it - it's frightening.
There should be a worldwide call for a ceasefire immediately and stop supporting a country currently partaking in mass murder.
Also - if the heavies of Hamas are in Qatar and the UK govt also support Qatar - where is the logic?!
My heart breaks for the terrified children - on either side of the border.

@laladoodoo I agree - it's heartbreaking on both sides. God know how it will get sorted out.

No I don’t think so.

It’s a lot more complicated than that isn’t it. Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad and Hamas are basically proxies for Iran. This is more than what happens in one country and each country in the area has it’s own interest, the USA is not going to stop supporting Israel because of this. They may encourage more restraint but they won’t withdraw support. The Abraham accords were about creating a bulwark against Iran. The GCC countries (with the exception of Qatar) and america see Iran and their proxies as a threat to regional stability and their own influence in the region. Americans have moved some pretty heavy duty war stuff close to Israel and they are probably keeping a keener eye on the gulf than usual.

The reality is the interest is probably primarily motivated by oil and gas (not because of money in and of itself but because our economies and lives rely on it).

Israel survived the 6 day war, it will probably survive this too, even if they are battered they will have the americans ready to intervene if they are attacked on their northern flank. Biden was pretty clear when he told external parties to not even think about joining in.

I think the media is making a big mistake continually highlighting the issue. They are actually increasing tension in the UK.

I try to watch as little BBC/Sky News/ Channel 4 news as possible. So maybe they are the things that will no longer exist.

Why is the UN not moving people out to safety,move out women and children and leave the men to fight ,or whatever they choose to do .

Def not, the west have basically given Israel permission to do whatever they want. Especially Biden but all our party leaders too.

Well, millions of Jews and the residents of Israel just for a start.

I think it's more likely there won't be a Palestine soon.

How would they do this, in the current situation? Across what border and into which country?

The US would not stand by if Israel was attacked by a neighbouring country, like Iran.

No, because the US and UK want to prop up the only democracy* in the region, and because the US benefits from Israeli trade. (I’m deliberately leaving out assessments of whether this massacre cancels out that massacre, or this war that war - I’d be here all day).

*yes I know Bibi is a right-wing fruitcake but generally Israel is a country that functions on democratic principles, which is a novelty in the region.

I think sadly when it comes down to it where geopolitics is concerned (that affects billions) a few thousand don’t matter so much.

There was a little noise about the Rohying, 100’000’s displaced estimates of at least 15’000 killed.

Over a million uyghers have been put through concentration camps for “re-education”.

In DRC people are suffering from attacks by the ADF which involves the murder, torture, child soldiers and girls (I’m talking about kids here ten year olds) kidnapped for sexual slavery.

We have done fuck all about any of those things. I’m sorry to say that from a global perspective whats happening is Gaza and what happened in Israel is not that unusual. Governments know this.

Thats exactly what Hamas wants, for Israel - and Jews by extension - to be wiped off the Earth.
Do you actually know how much Israel contributes to science/technology/healthcare considering they are a tiny country (size of Wales), the PP who replied ‘who cares’? Everyone should care. And this is before even going there with a homeland for Jewish people.

Israel is a wealthy economy with incredible technology and an arms industry of its own. Smart people and well trained armies all with a belief in the state.

They have no choice but to exist - as the alternative is what you saw two weeks ago on a full population scale.

That is not just the Jews in Israel, but the minority populations of Israeli-Arabs (Palestinians who accepted the state of Israel and live well and with more rights within Israel than they would anywhere else in ME), Christian Arabs, Druze etc etc. All would be massacred if the state failed - everyone knows this.

When your whole population knows that you face utter destruction - you generally fight pretty hard. Hence why Yom Kippur, 6 day war etc - all won by Israel - despite overwhelming odds against.

Isthisrealorjustfantasy · Today 08:26

Thats exactly what Hamas wants, for Israel - and Jews by extension - to be wiped off the Earth.
Do you actually know how much Israel contributes to science/technology/healthcare considering they are a tiny country (size of Wales), the PP who replied ‘who cares’? Everyone should care. And this is before even going there with a homeland for Jewish people

->
So true. Would love to see these protestors who hate Israel so much stop using anything from Israel.... Suddenly life without internet operating systems, good medicines and many other daily items would not be so fun!

Nail on head 👏

It's basically the opposite of what you said. Not sure where you're getting your news but the US is very involved and couldn't slack off if they wanted to, as it's literally policy. Support by evangelicals is especially strong as Israel is tied to their religious roots, and those are the people pulling the strings of politicians regardless of party in power. It would really help to do some research instead of making stuff up for attention.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/25/us/politics/us-israel-gaza-ground-invasion.html

https://il.usembassy.gov/our-relationship/policy-history/

The world is doing nothing.

Unfortunately I think Israel will get away with it and nothing will happen as the world watches on.

What can be done?

The US and the UK are abstaining or blocking cease-fires.

I think extremism will end up rising again aswell as people can't see anything getting resolved, when that happens the narrative will change and people will see this war as Israel v terrorism.

Looking at Syria and ISIS. Before ISIS Syria was part of the Arab spring uprising which had taken over Egypt and other countries.

In Syria, Assad was killing his own civilians and it was being shown on the news everyday with nothing being done. Obama said when there are signs of chemical weapons used they would intervene. Chemical weapon use was proved then nothing happend.

I saw news reports showing people driving UK ambulances to Syria and charity workers encouraging people to go. It was seen as humanitarian.

Then the extremist got in and the killing of the charity workers began. Everyone seems to forget why the war started in the first place and now Syria is associated with ISIS and the area is still destabilised.

Thats why I also don't understand how Israel can conflate Hamas with Isis, Isis was made up of foreign fighters with a different agenda. Its just that they know by mentioning a recent terrorist organisation with Hamas people will think its the same . Alqaeda is too long ago for people to make comparisons.

Call Hamas a terrorist organisation by all means but the two are different.

You have to assume Hamas knew what would happen when they entered Israel with the intention of killing civilians, not even pretending to be going for military targets. Israel would inevitably respond and the anger at the brutality of the attack meant that the response would be very violent. What were Hamas trying to do, get Gaza destroyed?