To think Israel won't exist much longer?

[sergeantsalt]

Support in the west is declining, and when Israel doesn't have weapons and defense funding they won't be able to defend against their neighbouring countries on their own. AIBU to wonder how much longer it can exist given they are losing support?

Israel will continue to exist, of course, but its current way of doing things is not sustainable. It is supposed to be a safe haven of Jews but it is becoming less likely the case so the house of cards may fall.

It is in the interest of Bibi and the West to NOT have a two state solution, but rather to maintain the status quo- exertion of power, not peace

Cannot believe there are still people who are defending what Israel is doing.

This is a genocide. Any claim about rescuing hostages is bullshit considering the indiscriminate bombing of Gaza. Israel was given the perfect excuse and it took advantage of it.

Thousands and thousands of innocent men, women and children are suffering painful deaths and being blown apart. That is not a justified response to the terror attack by Hamas. With Israel’s technology, does anyone seriously believe Israel cannot locate its hostages and rescue them, and target Hamas without killing so many innocent people?

Israel will always exist, as it should at this point in time, but it’s Gaza’s future that is in threat right now and anyone who thinks this is justified is a shameful excuse for a human being.

Hamas is not a nation state. You cannot justify destruction of Palestian civilians with 'because Hamas...'

You cannot have a 'war on terror' that metaphor was proven to be meaningless a couple of decades ago now.

this.

@AgaMM yes EXACTLY! It’s absolutely genocide and the fact that plenty on here seem to justify that is really shocking.

Israel, thankfully, will never cease to exist. I'm heartened by these responses and the voting. Looks like this thread isn't going in the direction your hamas apologist head had planned OP!

The only way that will happen is if the USA goes down too, which I think is unlikely to happen in our lifetime.

Civilisations rise and fall and I am sure at some point the west will go the same way as all throughout history.

But not yet.

I’m not sure that Israel can leave it now. You leave the tunnels and Hamas alone, in a few years you may have another horrifying attack on civilians. I mean it was just so utterly disgusting. The attack was designed to prompt a response from Israel. Hamas wanted this the sick bastards,

Unfortunately Hamas put their tunnels/weapons in precisely the places most people consider to be off-limits. From an Israeli perspective the only way to prevent another attack on Israel is to destroy everything that Hamas uses. They have made more effort to get civilians out of the way than is acknowledged but their first concern is Hamas not civilians. Hamas govern Gaza and yet have made no effort to protect their own civilians. It’s an odd thing when Israel is admonished for not looking after Gazans but Hamas are not.

Having said that I can’t imagine the terror Gazans are experiencing right now. Your home may well be gone, you don’t know where is safe, you don’t know how you are going to feed your kids, you don’t know if your children will survive this. I’d be fucking terrified right now. It’s all utterly horrific.

Really? Supporting the innocent Palestinians makes someone a Hamas apologist?

Shame on you.

It depends if it escalates and the West get dragged in as well as other countries in the East.

If it does (and America seem really desperate for this due to their economy going to shit and them seemly always making money from war), then I can't see voters in the West being on board with it. They just don't want this to escalate, only our politicians do. So the West will go in showing support, sell their weapons and make their money and will withdraw once it becomes hugely unpopular wih voters and then leave Israel to go to ruin.

Well, to be precise, more Palestinians have died at the hands of Israel than Israelis at the end of Palestinians over nearly 80 years. The numbers are widely available.

Indeed they have. Is that a good thing though? Or a bad thing?

People have voted that Israel will not cease to exist, do not conflate that with the notion that people are in any way in favour of Israel's actions. Genocide, nothing less.

Israel are not going to lose support. The worst they’ll suffer is the ignominy of moderate criticism.
Gaza, on the other hand, may well cease to exist at this rate.

Hamas use civilians as human shields. Their hq is under the shifa hospital. They don’t want a two state solution. They want the destruction of Israel. They are very clear on that. Israel is not carpet bombing Gaza or targeting it indiscriminately. The civilian death figures are produced by hamas who lie a lot. Hamas run a brutal regime in Gaza. Hamas declared war on Israel by killing 1400 and kidnapping 233.

I think that is extremely likely. Or Israel will completely push everyone out of North Gaza permanently and declare it a demilitarised buffer zone, necessary to put Israelis out of range of Hama's rockets. Then settlers will start land-grabbing in North Gaza and creating Israeli settlements which will be in range of Hamas and the cycle of violence will continue, with innocent civilians on both sides accounting for the majority of casualties.

*What is your view on the existence of Israel?

Exist or not*

@EasternStandard i think there has to be a proper 2 state solution. People forget that Hamas have prevented an free election in Gaza for 17 years. Punishing the current generation (and make no mistake, what Israel is currently doing is collective punishment under international law and a war crime) is utterly fucked up. You cannot blame the people of Gaza for the actions of a terrorist group- it’s just an excuse.

People also need to take a long hard look at what the settlers are doing on the West Bank too- violently throwing Palestinians off their land. There has to be a proper fair 2 state solution that allows dignity for the Palestinians too.

Well, to be precise, more Palestinians have died at the hands of Israel than Israelis at the end of Palestinians over nearly 80 years. The numbers are widely available.

Hamas committed an isis style terrorist attack on Israeli civilians. Women and children were raped and beheaded and burnt alive. A child was ripped from their mother's womb and beheaded. This is what you are defending with your whataboutery. Nice

I wouldn’t count on it. They have made it this long and it’s all their neighbours wanting to eradicate them. America is going to keep sending them money and weapons plus they have their own nuclear weapons and a vast military. I can’t see them going anywhere soon..

I think you’re probably right

Yabu but I think Israel will become more overtly a part of the USA global empire. In the same way that the USSR needed Cuba to thrive as a communist state on the doorstep of the USA during the cold war, it is vital for US interests in the Middle East to have a foothold there. That strip of land is far too strategically important to ever be surrendered to become part of the surrounding region of muslim-dominated states.

However it's unrealistic to keep pretending that it can exist as an independent sovereign state. Looking across the last thousands of years of history it has almost always been part of a wider empire. Any periods of existing as an independent nation are very short-lived and this will be true now too.

The best outcome might be for it to become an official US overseas territory like these ones which would mean that their neighbours and terrorists would be contending with the full weight of the US military - possibly giving more sensible people enough reason to choose not to act with violence, but possibly making the more extremist factions even more violent so perhaps not much change but at least with that status the non-jewish population would have recourse to a justice structure which ought to provide some protection for those wanting to just live in peace and get on with their lives.

Their hq is under the shifa hospital.

I’m not being funny but if the Israeli intelligence didn’t know Hamas were planning a massive terrorist attack it’s unlikely they know where their HQ is.