To think Israel won't exist much longer?

[sergeantsalt]

Support in the west is declining, and when Israel doesn't have weapons and defense funding they won't be able to defend against their neighbouring countries on their own. AIBU to wonder how much longer it can exist given they are losing support?

The scenes are horrific. Absolutely horric and heartbreaking.

The bombed refugee camp is the most heavily populated place on earth.
Israel are pushing Palestinians either towards Egypt or to their deaths.
UN official has resigned calling what is happening in Gaza is genocide.
This is from the Guardian from another thread.

Your username is apt. What I'd wrong with this world when people defend terrorists taking hostages?

The UN official's statement is hugely partisan, "ethno-nationalism" and "settler-colonial", referring to Palestinians alone as "indigenous".
This is not a serious person.

It's like watching doomsday unfold. I heard a boy say the dead ones are the lucky ones 😭 Can you imagine watching this level of carnage before your eyes? And on top of that no food, water, electricity, or even a toilet. I cannot fathom it at all.

I can see there may be issues in semantics but the IDF have literally bombed a refugee camp
With women and children
There are strewn body parts everywhere
There is no justification for this

Just bomb anywhere and say Hamas was there and we should all nod and say OK then nothing to see here
When will people open their eyes to what is happening
Netanyahu is unhinged
How is he still in power and making decisions

Majority of Israelis do not have faith in him with how he runs his own country yet we are supposed to believe that he will have any regard for the innocent civilians of Gaza,
Or should I say 'the children of darkness'

Even in war if this is what the IDF want to call it there are rules but Isreal time and time again breaks these moral codes. The whole world is on the streets - protesting their actions of sheer barbarism

The Israeli government had already been planning a forced displacement of Palestinians, written into government policy. A link to the leaked policy document is in the article.

The Israeli government is deliberately causing an acute humanitarian crisis of vile proportions in order to force the Palestinians to flee their land. They are destroying as much infrastructure as possible for this purpose.

https://dawnmena.org/us-congress-reject-bill-to-support-forced-israeli-displacement-of-palestinians-to-third-countries/

From the article:

Israeli actions, statements, and policy directives, including a leaked policy document drafted by the Israeli intelligence ministry that recommends the permanent forced transfer of Palestinians in Gaza to Sinai, indicate that Israel is actively considering forcibly displacing Palestinians in Gaza to third countries.

"The Biden administration isn't just giving a green light for ethnic cleansing—it's bankrolling it," said Sarah Leah Whitson, DAWN's Executive Director. "Gaslighting Americans into facilitating long-held Israeli plans to depopulate Gaza under the cover of 'humanitarian aid' is a cruel and grotesque hoax."

They want the Palestinian land because it is sat on a large oil and gas reserve. The US is set to have its economy overtaken by China by 2050, so this is Israel and the US’s plan to cling on to power.

https://unctad.org/publication/economic-costs-israeli-occupation-palestinian-people-unrealized-oil-and-natural-gas

From the article:

Geologists and natural resources economists have confirmed that the Occupied Palestinian Territory lies above sizeable reservoirs of oil and natural gas wealth, in Area C of the occupied West Bank and the Mediterranean coast off the Gaza Strip.

However, occupation continues to prevent Palestinians from developing their energy fields so as to exploit and benefit from such assets. As such, the Palestinian people have been denied the benefits of using this natural resource to finance socioeconomic development and meet their need for energy.

The accumulated losses are estimated in the billions of dollars. The longer Israel prevents Palestinians from exploiting their own oil and natural gas reserves, the greater the opportunity costs and the greater the total costs of the occupation borne by Palestinians become.

This guy, richardtmedhurst on Instagram, does a great job of explaining the zoomed out picture if you watch his second most recent video:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cy6GVHfuj_R/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Countries that have now cut diplomatic ties with Israel after the latest massacre of the Jabaliya refugee camp

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/31/bolivia-israel-hamas-gaza-war-crime

And finally calling the attack for what it is
A war crime

Major Belgian trade unions have boycotted shipping arms to Israel in response to the ongoing massacre of innocent civilians in Gaza

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/belgian-unions-refuse-handling-arms-shipments-israel-hamas-conflict-2023-10-31/

Great Freudian slip here.

You need to read that again because they didn't actually say that was a war crime.

Saying something could be is definitely not the same thing as saying something is.

Just like how "I eat what I see" doesn't mean the same thing as "I see what I eat".

Edit: horrific attack by Israel of bombing a refugee camp which resulted In the death of many civilians including children could be considered a war crime

👍 edited

Using private civilian homes to build an analogy is not a good idea when it comes to major issues such as partition of nations.

Your example is a false or weak analogy fallacy.

Partition is a last resort when two peoples within the same defined area of land cannot agree on who is the rightful owner, which identity it should take and who should govern the land.

The UN voted for partition. Palestinian leaderships have since rejected every single peace deal tabled over 75 years as their aim is a single Palestinian Arab State with an Islamic foundation as with other Arab World States. However, Palestinian President Abbas admitted in 2011 it was a mistake for them to reject the UN deal. Clinton warned Arafat he was leading Palestinians AND the region to catastrophe. And so it has come to pass.

You cannot spend 75 years rejecting all deals because you WILL run out of road, especially when you've failed in 75 years to have any meaningful power, politically and/or militarily. Let's be clear....Arab States tried dealing with Israel via military power and failed each time.

Hence, Saudi Crown Prince Mohammad Bin Salman was so frustrated with Palestinian leaders in yet another rejection that he told them they had to accept the deal or shut up since they don't possess the necessary power to get exactly what they want which is the elimination of the State of Israel.

Palestinians have been failed by their own leaders for 75 years. Ask yourself what do Palestinian leaders get out of constant rejections of various deals?

Power and money are two obvious ones. They require perpetual victimhood to keep Palestinians right where they are, to keep the conflict simmering yet not boiling over and their own positions intact. This is what is really being supported in backing the Palestinians in reality - just more of the same exploitation of Palestinians by Palestinian leaders who've realised money & power will keep coming courtesy of outsiders who don't really understand the complexities of the region.

A single joint State for both is amongst the least popular options as far as Israelis and Palestinians are concerned. The two State solution is the only show in town.

Again, here you declare something as a war crime.

Yet Article 19 of the Geneva Convention is quite clear that civilian hospitals lose civilian protection when they're used for something other than their intended purpose.

You cannot redefine what a war crime is according to your liking nor can such crimes be determined at this point in the conflict.

A reminder that using civilians and civilian infrastructure as a shield against attack does NOT mean a military cannot target the object.

If using civilians and civilian infrastructure as shields actually granted immunity from attack, this would place an undue burden on ALL Sovereign States seeking to defend their territory and civilians from terrorist groups such as Hamas. Terrorist groups would have an obvious advantage.

As long as a military advantage is there, its legitimate to attack.

Remember with terrorist groups like Hamas there is actually no other choice. They certainly can't be left intact as they'll never stop attacking Israel.

Remember that Hamas' Use Of Human Shields In Gaza is intended to work on people emotionally in their favour. This is an example of terrorist propaganda and such groups communicate via gruesome images followed by an intense campaign of DARVO across media publications.

Nonsense anyone who attacks children and other vulnerable members of society is revolting.

is there a "conflict in Europe" board? If not, why not? Why are people so keen to have an entire board designed fo criticise a nation responding to a terror attack as huge and far reaching as 9-11? Why are people so keen to support a terrorist regime? Useful idiots, for sure.