To think Israel won't exist much longer?

[sergeantsalt]

Support in the west is declining, and when Israel doesn't have weapons and defense funding they won't be able to defend against their neighbouring countries on their own. AIBU to wonder how much longer it can exist given they are losing support?

@ismu. What? I’m afraid that is not what I have seen across many threads. Most Israelis I know are vocally anti-Netanyahu, although this is based on my experience and does not speak for all Israelis. I wouldn’t be so arrogant as to try to.

@Defiantjazz yep, that’s my experience.

92%of income tax is paid for by the top 20% in Israel. The top decile only earns an average of £45k per annum..there is a brain drain- for every graduate that comes to Israel, four leave. Aliyah from Western economies is actually quite low despite the feel good stories from nefesh b nefesh.

On top of that they have the haredi problem. 50% of school kids in Israel would be haredi or Arab by 2030 due to high birth rate. These kids actually perform on a lower academic level than in most Arab countries so they do not correspond to a first world military

Add to that Israel is a small country so a brain drain of tens of thousands has an oversized impact.

Brain drain is actually a bigger concern long term.www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-04-21/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/netanyahu-did-us-a-favor-theres-a-huge-opportunity-says-top-israeli-economist/00000187-9fe1-d6e9-a997-9fefff040000

How many Israelis do you think voted for Netanyahu?

And the poster was accused of anti-Semitism for saying Jewish people had gone from being abused to being an abuser (Jewish people... Nothing to do with Israel) and that the Jewish community is committing genocide. Again, Jews, not Israel. The grabby hands comment was nothing compared to that, really

I realise all of that in the first paragraph; however I was referring to more recent Hamas support, which every poll shows to be the position of the majority - and since many of that majority will be parents, that's why I suggested taking up the terrible fate of their children with them

Totally agree about the indoctrination of the young though, but even then it's not Israelis who appear to be taking their children along to celebrate the latest atrocity

Do feel free to check with MN whether I've namechanged. I'd be happy, if necessary, to refer them to my grandfather's (and great-grandfather's) British naturalisation details (available on the internet) and provide them with a copy of my Ukrainian grandmother's passport and father's East London 1930s birth certificate if they need any proof of my provenance. I could probably also provide them with my GF's service history from the Spanish Civil War, my uncle's arrest record from Cable Street, and the letter from my GF's friend in Haganah informing my GM of his death in Israel, if I was pushed.

But yeah, I'm an anti-semitic Jihadist sympathiser.

And an extremely good job they're making of it IMO - thank you, @MNHQ

I think there will be some more going soon. Looks like somebody's on a 'rant'. What a way to describe responding to blatant antisemitism by calling it a rant.

No we don't think which is why we condemn Hamas.

@SoMuchSimpler No. I have gone back to re-read my post as I do not want to jump on someone unfairly.
I do not see how you came to your interpretation, the poster clearly conflated Israel with the Jewish people. And the other stuff…

for saying Jewish people had gone from being abused to being an abuser

As can be seen from these threads, and on the news, there seems to be a sizeable proportion of Jewish people worldwide who fully support Israel's actions, just as there is a sizeable proportion of Muslims/Arabs/Palestinians who support Hamas' actions. But also people wrongly conflate things in speech, even if not in thought. I've heard many people use 'Jews' when they mean Israelis, just as they might ignorantly say 'Catholics' when they mean Irish Republicans or 'Protestants' when they mean NI Loyalists. It's just the association in people's minds.

As I wrote previously there's a far more predominant Arab/Palestinian/Hamas/Jihadist/terrorist blurring in people's minds than there is Jewish/Israeli/Zionist.

If you dare criticize the Israeli government you are automatically an antisemitic Jihadist sympathiser. It is a way to shut down any dialogue. Your family history sounds interesting, by the way.

Israel will be fine. Israel is culturally, spiritually and emotionally important to the west. Palestine is not. Ideally it won't have to, but if push comes to shove the west will step in for Israel.

For those saying this- genuinely not goady- do you not mind the deaths of all the Palestinians? Do you think it’s fair collateral damage and one of those things? I don’t understand- I’m not anti Israel and can’t see Israel being eradicated quite rightly but the brutality of the attack on Gaza is horrifying.

I gave the poster two opportunities to accept she'd used the wrong wording and correct her mistake. She chose not to. She kept insisting she'd not said anything wrong. The only conclusion to draw from that is she that she said what she meant and she meant what she said. Not sure why you're defending her? It would give your comments a lot more meaning if you didn't spend so much time defending someone so obviously in the wrong.

Also, I'd love to see where you got the statistics for that last statement from. You can't just claim something as fact because that's how you feel about things.

Yes, I mind those deaths. Yes, I think it's collateral damage and no, I don't think it's fair.

Israel is more important to the west than palestine is very very true. Hence the ongoing support for Israel's crimes.
However you will find that support for Israels ongoing slaughter is very much diminishing.
What is happening now has gone far beyond self defence and this view has steadily been increasing all over the world, even amongst many Jews (I'm sure you must have seen the Jewish voice for peace protestors in NYC last night)

I didn't let any mask slip - many of the posters on here are Jewish but not Israeli so I was being inclusive in that I was responding to people on this thread who may be Jewish and not Israeli. I have no idea why or how you took offence to that. Many people on this thread have said they are Jewish, inclusing some I earlier responded to.

Of course I know about Egypt. If I went into every nuance, these posts would be incredibly long. Most can understand the situation without needing to speak to every aspect. And if you have taken a look at the Rafah Gate - Israel has bombed it and is controlling the aid being allowed in and passage to and from there as well.

I do mind the deaths of Palestinians, I just don't think the deaths are entirely Israel's fault. Hamas are hiding behind them and blocking a lot of them from leaving north Gaza. It has been known for years that terrorists hide in and under hospitals, schools etc. I think Israel has been pushed into an impossible decision.

I don't want more deaths on either side. I want peace. I want two states and as someone suggested earlier, for Jerusalem to be completely neutral and there for all.

I don't think Palestinians have brought it upon themselves but I likewise don't know what else can be done. I really don't know. It's utter shit and I have no answers. I just want the hostages (all of them, not just the ones they consider civilian) out and I want Hamas and their supporters eradicated.

This ! Anyone not supporting a ceasefire and an end to the genocide in Gaza is complicit in this. The abused have become the abuser and will end up on the wrong side of history. The world will never forget these war crimes and ethnic cleansing.

Complicit? An incongruous word. This is an example of some seeing things black and white and others seeing grey areas. I don't want Hamas spreading their evil. I want them contained and eradicated. It is extremely sad that there are civilian casualties, especially those poor quad babies.

@Parkingt111
However you will find that support for Israels ongoing slaughter is very much diminishing
Disagree. As with Brexit, I believe the vocal minority is just that.

Well you must have seen the outcome of the vote on the truce yesterday
Even the UK abstained when previously they would have voted the same as Israel

Wow, you really are brainwashed by the western governments aren’t you. Israel absolutely are carpet bombing Gaza and targeting it indiscriminately. They are guilty of collective punishment, which is a war crime, they are using white phosphorus, which is a war crime. They are slaughtering the old, the sick, the women, children and babies who have nowhere to escape to…..are you really ok with that ?? The Israeli government and the IDF are war criminals.

Whereas you've got it valley sussed, eh. The rest of us are sheep. Ironic.