To think Israel won't exist much longer?

[sergeantsalt]

Support in the west is declining, and when Israel doesn't have weapons and defense funding they won't be able to defend against their neighbouring countries on their own. AIBU to wonder how much longer it can exist given they are losing support?

I stand with Israel. Just because I do doesn't make me not support innocent Palestinian civilians.

Just because someone is against what they are doing doesn't automatically make them anti-semetic

Absolutely not. It's saying anti-Semitic things and ranting about Jews and the Holocaust that makes them anti-Semitic.

Yes I agree with most of what you say. But the thing is, these people have been showing their hand for weeks now on MN and I think the less dogwhistling threads we have now the better, for everyone's sanity. Threads like this are catnip for antisemites and the masks came off long before today.

@topnoddy No, criticising the Israeli government doesn’t. Conflating them with the ‘Jewish people’ absolutely does.

@saffronsoup
Unlike you, I know exactly who controls the borders of Gaza. Egypt and Israel.

A quick Google will tell you how many Gazans emigrated last year - they don’t have to say anything to Israel. They can ask Egypt and walk over the border. Unless the Egyptian border is closed, and I hate to tell you this, but Egypt closes the Gazan borders for Egyptian reasons.

But you don’t want to know anything about Egypt, do you?

You let your mask slip in the last sentence of your post. This isn’t about the Palestinians, is it?

“Jews refusing to speak up against the atrocities in Palestine…”

It’s always about the Jews.

@Anactor Quite.

It is always about the Jews. One thing I have also learned recently is that the Holocaust is used as an excuse for, in this case, Israeli Jews to put up and shut up. You are not allowed to defend yourself or that makes you as bad as a group of people who set out to systematically remove your race from the earth. It beggars belief.

I think part of the issue is that the current Israeli government who are extremist right wing Zionists are quite happy to promote the idea that their views speak for all Jewish people both in Israel and globally and they have despicably weaponised dissent as anti semitic. If we truly value a democratic Israel this needs to be challenged, but to be honest I don't know how to do this.

@FlutterbyWhiskers was clearly referring to Jewish people who support the actions of the current Israeli government, rather than to all Jewish people. There wasn't even a hint of antisemitism.

There's far more (racist and Islamophobic) conflation of Hamas/Jihadist/Palestinian/Arab/Muslim/Terrorist on MN (and elsewhere) than there is anti-semitic conflation of Jewish/Israeli/Israeli state.

I'm ethnically Jewish and an Israeli citizen by descent (at least I would be if I wanted to be). I absolutely deplore and condemn the actions of Hamas but I also deplore and condemn the actions of the nationalistic Israeli state and their ultra-Zionist predecessors. My grandfather died fighting for the foundation of Israel and my father was in the IDF before returning to the UK in the late 1950s totally disillusioned with Israel. My father's side of the family (his cousins and their descendants) have also all returned to the UK.

@SoMuchSimpler that was not how I read it, but if I misunderstood than I apologise to them. In the context of the rest of the post I am afraid that was not immediately obvious.

You didn't misunderstand at all. It was clear what that deleted poster was doing. Not innocent one bit.

And in my opinion you're clearly the bigot that you accuse @FlutterbyWhiskers of being.

Yes, of course I am. Thats why I reported them. Watch that mask doesn't slip further.

I think extremism will end up rising again aswell as people can't see anything getting resolved, when that happens the narrative will change and people will see this war as Israel v terrorism

It's already about Israel/the west versus terrorism, but those who don't want to see this now are unlikely to want to see it in future, preferring to hammer out silly Twitter tropes on their keyboards

And before anyone says it, no it's certainly not the fault of "innocent children", but the people to take that up with are the far too many parents who supported Hamas in the first place

@ismu I hear you but surely anyone with an ounce of common sense would recognise that is not the case, in the same way that many of us recognise that what our government do does not necessarily speak for all of us.

I think part of the issue is that the current Israeli government who are extremist right wing Zionists are quite happy to promote the idea that their views speak for all Jewish people both in Israel and globally and they have despicably weaponised dissent as anti semitic.

Apparently a fair number of Israeli citizens think their government is misguided (if not outright mental) never mind non-Israeli Jews.

@ChalkWitch what do you think is not the case -sorry do you mean people can separate Israeli government actions from Jewish people as a whole? Or do you actually believe that Netanyahu does not weaponise anti semitism? He's an extreme nationalist who believes if you're not for us you're against us and has supported Hamas who believe exactly the same thing to further his own ends. It's on record.

I've often said the same, but for this to work would mean all of those involved respecting the others equally - and unfortunately the sole purpose of the leaders of one group is, and has always been, to make sure the other no longer exists

@ismu. This is what I think is the case: that people can separate Israeli government action from Jewish people as a whole.

Oh @ChalkWitch I wish they could but it seems that standing with Israel includes absolute unquestioning support for the government and the IDF no matter what, or you're an anti semite. I stand for ceasefire and no more killings ,release of all hostages and access to humanitarian aid.

Mask? You're betraying your bigotry again. Anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion is 'anti-semitic' or wearing a 'mask' of some sort? Even if they're Jewish and their grandfather was killed fighting to establish a Jewish state?

There have been some absolutely vile anti-Semitic posts on this thread, why are you turning this around to blame anyone but the author?

Over 75% of Gazan Palestinians were either not born too young to vote at the last elections. Over half of the remaining <25% didn't vote for Hamas.

Far too many Gazans, Israelis, and Jewish/Arab/Muslim people worldwide are indoctrinated in their beliefs about the conflict from a very young age.

I didn't see any 'vile anti-Semitic posts' at all, apart from the 'grabby hands' comment, which could (just about conceivably, at a stretch) be accepted as a normal turn of speech about grabby people. I did see may posts from people ranting about posts that I couldn't see the anti-Semitism in though.

Fortunately it’s up to mnhq to decide and the posts have been deleted