Justifying the rape of women

[armchairactivist1]

Something I keep coming back to.. for the people whose sympathies lie with the Palestinians and think an eye for an eye and that Hamas have been pushed to act the way they have, how do you justify the brutal rape of women by Hamas?
Post edited by MNHQ

I think the problem for everyone is this kind of barbarity is spoken about in the way the poster you quoted did.

Well, obviously, I'm not celebrating anything. I'm a peace-loving non-Jewish/Muslim/any-kind-of-religion person living quietly in a small European country (not UK).

As a compassionate human being, I can totally understand why someone who has been brutalised by another culture might be pleased to hear bad news about the other side. In private!

But these huge street celebrations? That guy phoning his parents, who were ecstatic to hear his news about killing 10 Jews? That's something else, it's on another level. The public, shameless depravity is what makes it so shocking. It's clearly cultural, not personal.

Believe it or not, I started off a fortnight ago with a kind of automatic sympathy for the "Palestinians." I had the vague idea that they were the underdog and that Israel, backed by the US, had an unfair advantage.

I'm deeply, deeply ashamed to admit that my first reaction, when I heard that Israelis at a peace festival had been attacked, was partly to just think "Ah well, daft hippies, having a peace party in a war zone, what did they expect." 😨 😢 That's how fucking ignorant I was.

Then I started educating myself.

I was really curious to understand things better and have watched lots of info from both sides, including Al Jazeera.

I've found out that Hamas are mind-numbingly rich, but have always chosen to invest in warfare rather than improving the infrastructure in Gaza. Because their focus is on wiping out Israel. I mean, they don't even make any secret of this! It's their stated goal, enshrined in their covenant. They constantly bombard Israel with missiles, which is why those beautiful souls at the festival took no notice at first.

Hamas play dirty by using their own people as human shields (i.e. basing missile launchers and ammo depots in hospitals, schools, mosques etc), which is a war crime that complicates the picture of fair warfare. They never bothered putting in a missile defence system like Israel's "iron dome." And they steal any aid that gets through.

Against this background, I'd have expected "Palestinians" to be equally keen on destroying Hamas. Everyone's lives would be so much better without them. Surely they don't all share the ambition to wipe out Israel...? Or...??????????

I've been so shocked by the anti-Israeli sentiments expressed on this thread, like the one above saying the global press briefing was just "propaganda." I don't know quite how to describe that level of wilful ignorance.

Dr Chen Kugel, head of Israel's National Centre of Forensic Medicine, was asked about this. He said he could not confirm either way whether they were beheaded, only that they had no heads. The remains were so charred that it was difficult to tell whether the heads had been chopped off with a knife or just came off in some kind of explosion or point-blank gunshot.

To be honest, working out why babies' heads have come off is kind of academic.

JFC, this is like holocaust denial all over again. Have you seen the video, taken and released by Hamas, of the young woman being pulled from the back of a truck with the bag of her trousers covered in blood? How do you think that happened? They are pulling her into the back seats with the men. Why do you think that is?

Hamas are like Islamic state, and you know how they treated the women they capture. Hamas are deeply misogynistic. They come from a culture of sexual violence. Palestinian police rape gay men as ‘punishment’.

The idea that a group that displays a near naked ( why is she nearly naked?) unconscious young woman to jeering crowds of spitting men, would have the respect not to rape those women is utterly ludicrous.

Read the accounts of the pathologists, of children tied together and burnt alive, of a parent and child tied together and burnt alive, read how this corroborates the accounts of those who collected the bodies for burial. And tell me these are men who would stop short of rape.

Listen to the accounts of the family who Hamas posted photos of their murdered grandmother on their Facebook page and tell me these are men who would stop short of rape.

I cannot imagine how desperate you are to remain ideologically captured to pretend this never happened.

I don't think that's hard to understand at all. What I struggle to understand is how so many people can't seem to hold any space at all for the absolute horror of the acts of 7th October. It's a total side issue to them, 'yeah that's bad, but ...'

This puts it so well.

Yes to this. At least recognise the barbarity people suffered.

The number 40 was just chosen by a random journalist though. Not that it matters, any child being killed is awful but the way the headlines portrayed it was not right. It could be that 1 baby was killed in collateral damage or 10, but we don't know and we probably won't ever find out.

The number 40 was the number of dead children (infants/under 2s actually), it was not chosen at random. But you're right, it makes all the difference if we know exactly how many were beheaded. We wouldn't want to accidentally imply that they were all killed with unimaginable savagery, that would be so unfair and inflammatory.

Wow, such paranoia and bitterness. Yes, I absolutely did comment and post in a spirit of shocked sadness at that time. You are bigoted and to be pitied. Your thought patterns are dangerous and will lead to more suffering on both sides. I don't give a fuck about your clever maths re Biden - think of those children and wind your neck in.

Your tone is deeply inappropriate - this is not something to be flippant or point scoring about. Have some respect.

As mentioned above, the head of Israel's National Centre of Forensic Medicine could not confirm either way whether they had been decapitated with a knife or just accidentally in the process of killing them. I think what gave the impression of deliberate decapitation is that they were stacked in two piles, I suppose the way you'd prepare meat for a BBQ.

BTW, if you're referring to the 7 Oct attacks here... do you understand what "collateral damage" means?

Can you explain why you keep insisting on minimising what happened? I'm just a bit baffled.

I can't believe that people are seeking to deny or minimise the events of 7th October.
Thank you to the posters who are challenging this with the appropriate evidence.
Is it because of social media?

What are you trying to do here?

Your tone is deeply inappropriate - this is not something to be flippant or point scoring about. Have some respect.

I read the tone as utterly frustrated with the minimising. Which is the deeply inappropriate part.

We’re struggling with the minimising in @SadTimes96 posts

i read the tone in the same way and share that posters frustration and disgust.

God, I’ve just picked up on the collateral damage comment.

Thats disgusting. It’s saying that Hamas did not deliberately murder babies and children when they clearly did and with barbarity and cruelty too.

I’m utterly disgusted at that excusing minimization.

You can’t even respect the victims enough to acknowledge and name what was done to them.

God, I despair of people, I really do.

You need to learn to read tone. Seriously.

Thank you.

@Maireas

I can't believe that people are seeking to deny or minimise the events of 7th October.
Thank you to the posters who are challenging this with the appropriate evidence.
Is it because of social media?

I think social media is playing a big part in this situation. It's like holocaust denial again. Main supporters seem to be liberal left wing & hamas have opposing ideology. So I'm baffled by the support for the regime.

I don't agree with how that poster is going about it but aren't they just trying to highlight the hypocrisy of the situation? Palestinian children have been written off by lots of posters here as collateral damage. For the past few days there has been a massive push to deny how many people are being murdered in Palestine. She is literally just echoing back the pro Israel stance?

Like I said I don't agree with how she is going about it but her point is really clear to see. If it is appalling for her to do it about innocent Israelis then it is clearly appalling to do the same for innocent Gazans. None of the children who have been hurt or killed asked for this, no matter what Israeli politicians say.

The number 40 was just chosen by a random journalist though. Not that it matters, any child being killed is awful but the way the headlines portrayed it was not right. It could be that 1 baby was killed in collateral damage or 10, but we don't know and we probably won't ever find out.

There were many babies and children deliberately killed, burned and mulilated, unfortunately. Nothing collateral about it.
The article I linked to above gives some of the sad details.

No, @Gruntsandgroans . It was minimising/denying specific atrocities.