Justifying the rape of women

[armchairactivist1]

Something I keep coming back to.. for the people whose sympathies lie with the Palestinians and think an eye for an eye and that Hamas have been pushed to act the way they have, how do you justify the brutal rape of women by Hamas?
Post edited by MNHQ

What made me believe the Israeli accounts of 7 Oct (apart from general media coverage) was the rawness of personal testimonies, their obvious trauma, and the fact that individual narratives overlapped to build up a coherent picture.

The writing style of something can obviously begin to look very much like propaganda, I'm sorry that you dismiss this as just me being racist.

I haven't said you're racist.
Have you seen or heard the first-hand and eyewitness accounts emerging? If so, what about those isn't believable enough?
Some of translated accounts will be dependent upon the quality of translation and that dome words/phrases don't translate directly, but the original versions of those are pretty raw and traumatised too, in my opinion.

Have you seen or heard the first-hand and eyewitness accounts emerging? If so, what about those isn't believable enough?

I hesitate to comment, because who knows how I would behave and speak in such horrific circumstances... but the YouTube interview that EasterIssland has shared to accompany the article in question... just doesn't quite sound right to me. She sounds so confident and articulate, and as though she is following a script that ticks all the boxes for key messages. Maybe it's a cultural difference that I don't understand, but (say) the Nova festival survivors' testimonies were very different. They were in shock. They were articulate, but often speechless. Their focus was on the horror of the immediate experience, not making angry accusations about what should or shouldn't be happening. I think one of them made a remark in passing about the army/police not coming to their rescue, but it was hard to interpret the feeling behind it.

I'm not denying that horrible things are happening. I just don't have a clear picture of what they are.

I'm not denying that horrible things are happening.
Sound like you are to be honest

I find your comment comparing women's testimony's really distasteful and pretty racist

This article may be of interest. About Jamila Al-Hessi.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-793560

"Al Jazeera columnist and former director Yasser Abuhilalah also tweeted, admitting that “It was revealed through Hamas investigations that the story of the rape of women in Al-Shifaa hospital was fabricated… The woman who spoke about rape justified her exaggeration and incorrect talk by saying that the goal was to arouse the nation’s fervor and brotherhood,”"

@InvisibleDuck I hope that it turns out nobody has been raped or assaulted - I'd much rather it turn out to have been incorrect reporting than sexual violence. Do you have a link to the reported tweet? I had a quick look but couldn't see it myself?

@Scirocco This looks like the tweet mentioned - https://twitter.com/abuhilalah/status/1771996521312973088 I don't speak Arabic but auto-translate seems to be giving me roughly what was reported.

I hope very much that nobody else has been raped too, and that anyone who is responsible for those kinds of crimes against women on either side of the conflict is brought to justice.

@InvisibleDuck thanks, yes, the Arabic does say roughly that - that the woman in their interview exaggerated the account given.

Other accounts have been coming out too, of sexual violence against Palestinian women, so there are still concerns, however, along with the interview with a Canadian doctor above. Hopefully there can be more investigation into these disturbing reports.

I'm using critical appraisal skills, while also acknowledging that we are standing safely on the outside of a horrible situation we can't possibly grasp.

I'm fed up of being judged and ridiculed on here for being honest, so I'll step out. It strikes me as utterly tasteless to speculate on events anyway, although I understand that's what some people like to do.

@Scirocco that's what I found.
Perhaps you could link to other accounts that have been verified?

@stomachamelon I'm out at the moment with limited signal, but if you ask on the sexual violence against Palestinian women thread, they might be able to provide some links. Verification of emerging accounts from a conflict zone is difficult, as it is from other disaster areas. And it's made even harder when people are dishonest or exaggerate.

I'm still waiting to read the Al Jazeera retraction when/if it comes, and an explanation of why they published only to silently retract. I suspect, like all media, they won't publicise their retraction that much... I also find it interesting that there has already been a reported investigation by Hamas, that there has then been a publicising of that reported investigation's conclusion in relation to the woman (when it probably would have been strategically sensible to hide that - I of course don't think they should have hidden findings, but this is an organisation that engages in terrorism so I don't think telling a fib would necessarily register on their consciences), and that this is the Hamas-originating investigation which is suddenly credible when others have been dismissed. It's all a bit convoluted. And in the middle of it, women are suffering.

Yes, I too felt surprised by Hamas doing investigating and admitting it was an exaggeration.

It is so wrong the woman exaggerated and lied, as now no Palestinian woman will easily be believed.

I thought the Canadian doctor was credible, and also the reports of Palestinian women in detention that came out in February.

www.instagram.com/p/C48HoP1NgxA/?igsh=OHV1aWUzMjU4NnNn

From Jerusalem post.

As mentioned yesterday I’m glad If the hospital story has been removed as it means no woman has gone through a rape

What made me believe the Israeli accounts of 7 Oct (apart from general media coverage) was the rawness of personal testimonies, their obvious trauma, and the fact that individual narratives overlapped to build up a coherent picture.

For me it was the instant I saw the footage of Shani Louk on the back of that pickup truck. It was immediately and viscerally obvious just what the mass attack had entailed, seeing that.

A freed hostage, Amit Soussana, has now spoken about her sexual assault during her time in captivity.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/03/26/middleeast/amit-soussana-israeli-hostage-hamas-sexual-assault-intl/index.html

I put this on the other (Palestinian) thread by mistake yesterday, last night, so I asked MN to have it moved, but it could only be deleted.

She was one of the released hostages. Her account had been heard by investigators after her release but she has now just now very bravely spoken out publicly so as to impress the world with how important it is to get the remaining hostages out.

Her account of how she was sexually abused by her guard is very raw and upsetting, and like a nightmare. The guard then felt guilty and said he was bad. When she was moved to another place of capture she was badly beaten by four other guards.

The madness and unpredictability of all these men’s behaviour must mean you are on unceasing red alert without respite. To think of those who have been living under these conditions for six months. But it is unimaginable.

Here is further witness testimony of the rapes - this time by a perpetrator.

https://twitter.com/AviMayer/status/1773369515675406672

@ScrollingLeaves I really hope that this poor woman spoke out of her own volition and didn't feel pressured to do so due to the global attempts to deny and undermine what happened.

Yes, I hope for that too. It would awful if she had felt that pressure.

https://www.thetimes.com/magazines/the-times-magazine/article/israel-hamas-rape-investigation-evidence-october-7-6kzphszsj

www.thetimes.com/world/article/israel-hamas-war-rape-sexual-violence-women-jewish-palestinian-kgsw0s95r

Extraordinary. Well done.

www.linkedin.com/posts/ruth-halperin-kaddari-908311146_thedinahproject-un-cedaw-activity-7205578304861462528-2s1F