Justifying the rape of women

[armchairactivist1]

Something I keep coming back to.. for the people whose sympathies lie with the Palestinians and think an eye for an eye and that Hamas have been pushed to act the way they have, how do you justify the brutal rape of women by Hamas?
Post edited by MNHQ

www.instagram.com/reel/C4QX3rRrymw/?igsh=MXhpMWc2cWFtNHVvZw==

Silence is despicable....

There is descriptions of a very sensitive nature in this video and first hand accounts. May be triggering.

I think it's important though.

Silence is despicable....

@stomachamelon it's a hard watch, but like you say, an important one. People need to watch and listen, and think, and believe women.

What happened on October 7th must not be downplayed. It was... I struggle to find the words to say how horrific it was to read and see and hear what happened.

The perpetrators must be brought to justice.

I know this is probably of no significance to the survivors and the bereaved, but what those men have done is entirely forbidden by Islam and justice under the very sharia law they claim to value so highly could actually involve death sentences. There are clear teachings in Islam that people who have done these things will be severely punished after they die, as well. Rape, torture, mutilation... all condemned.

In Islam, it is said that we as ordinary people do not have the right to say that someone is not a Muslim when that person says that they are, because we cannot know what is in another person's heart. But I struggle with that. I struggle to see how those people can hold any semblance of the same faith as me and my family and friends, when their hearts also contained such evil.

I'm struggling to post much today, it's a hard day, but please don't take that to mean I don't care. My heart breaks for the innocent victims of October 7th, just as much as for the innocent people of Palestine.

Truth will prevail

You came on this thread to discredit rape victims and deny what was done to them. Why? What is your motivation?

Yes - it’s disgusting when people do that. This was a thread about the sexual barbarity on October 7 - impossible to understand how anyone can’t just say-“ that’s horrific. “

My love is for the people who are prepared to identify with and support the suffering of those on “ the other side” .
I hope all pro Israelis on this thread agree that the terrible suffering of innocent Palestinians is not the correct response to the terrible suffering of innocent Israelis.

@Scirocco thank you for that statement.

I really hope so. It’s the only way we can move forward.

That is absolutely not what I have done.
I can only assume you are deliberately misrepresenting what I say because I criticized the mis-information that was spread by the first responders Zaka.

I reported the last poster who accused me of denying rape. I don't want to do it again as the thread should not be deleted

You would think that the actions/untruths of an organisation that would lead to people being able to cast doubt on women's testimonies of what happened on 7th October would annoy people.
That is what I naively thought but no this is the Israel authorities we are talking about therefore I am the one to be attacked and told to shut up. And I am the one trying to discredit the women? That is twisted logic.
I believe these women and I am annoyed that someone in a trusted position ie first responder has handed on a plate, to those who want to use it that way, reasons for them to be doubted which happens to women all the time.
I am at an absolute loss why the rest of you don't feel that.
You don't, I do.

Whatever.

This is a very interesting article about the politicisation of rape as a war crime.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2024/01/16/bombing-gaza-isnt-fighting-sexual-violence/

However, we do not honor the voices of those who may have experienced sexual violence by ventriloquizing them or claiming to speak on their behalf....Historically, women have not only been silenced or disbelieved about sexual violence. They have also been spoken for and instrumentalized, particularly in conflict situations.

This sums up how I feel about the way the rapes are being used in discourse about the war.

@Silence1 of course you only came on the share your 'bafflement'

The UN live streamed a two hour segment yesterday in honour of international women's day without mentioning the 19 women hostages.

www.reddit.com/r/Israel/s/ES2YhjZTFp

😮

The UN seem to forget some women.

“Historically, women have not only been silenced or disbelieved about sexual violence. They have also been spoken for and instrumentalized, particularly in conflict situations.”
I think this is what some posters are doing when they focus on the “Failures” of Zaka and pretend they’re doing it out of concern for the victims. They are using the atrocities of October 7th as another reason to criticise the Israeli government.
Criticise the Israeli government for their continued bombardment of Gaza but don’t use the “failings” of the evidence gathering of atrocities as a pretext to attack the Israeli government. That’s a matter for the Israelis themselves to investigate and address at a later stage.

“I am annoyed that someone in a trusted position ie first responder has handed on a plate, to those who want to use it that way, reasons for them to be doubted which happens to women all” Have you thought about what it must have been like for those first responders? Your “annoyance “ is a very strange reaction.

They couldn't care less about the 'failures' of Zaka and it's another stick to beat Israel with.

The faux bewilderment :/

I cried watching that. The silence was deafening, and yes, despicable.

thank you @Scirocco 🫂💔

@Silence1 you may only have come across Zaka in the context of October 7th, but trust me, every Israeli, Jewish or not, knows of their work from long before October 7th. Every time there is a terrorist attack, their gruesome job is one not one of us want to do. These volunteers collect every scrap of human matter, body parts, items soaked in blood, from the aftermath of terrorist attacks, as in Jewish belief, it is important to bury the whole person and is considered the final kindness that can be offered in death. They do this for Jews, non Jews, and the terrorists themselves.
They have long earned the respect of Israelis, as they have again and again stepped up in unbearable situations.

No I am not annoyed at the volunteers of zaka; the traumatic scenes they went into were beyond anything in scale of numbers and barbarity than had been seen in Israel in living memory. Were mistakes made? Doubtless. But if I am struggling to find the courage to go down south to bear witness 5 months after the attack, the last thing I am going to do is criticise the people who voluntarily went in to give the victims the final dignity, mere hours after. It would have broken me to see what they saw.

My IG is very light, but an art account posted three young women before and after the attacks

I cried too. It was so stark

Thanks for sharing this, it’s really insightful, and this is what I mean when I say I am angry about the way sexual abuse is being politicised by people who wouldn’t normally give a rats arse about it.

@PeasfullPerson I don't understand your statement? Meaning we should strive to do worse somehow because it's the status quo? Surely any press is good press where rape of women is concerned?

I think she means that she finds the politicisation of these women's rapes distasteful and not motivated by actual concern about rapes. Rather the rapes are cynically being used as justification for war.

I totally agree. It is a shame that the common or garden rape of women is effective decriminalised in this country (and many others). It would be nice if politicians put their money where their mouth is and refused to tolerate any rapes, instead of only getting interested when the rapes can be used to suit their political agenda.

This is a militarized version of sex exceptionalism – ‘the idea that sex and sexualities are inherently different from all other human activities and topics of study’. It is why we treat sexual offences as different and worse than other crimes, justifying intensely punitive responses. In the context of war, sexual violence allegations are used to bolster public support for hostility. Karen Engle notes that since the 1990s, ‘rape has come to be one of the most commonly invoked reasons for use of force’.

Sex exceptionalism facilitates Israeli exceptionalism, justifying Israel’s right to violently avenge attacks on Israeli women and girls without being limited by international law. Each reiteration that sexual violence by Hamas was ‘unprecedented in its cruelty’ encourages the world to accept the scenes of devastation in Gaza.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2024/01/16/bombing-gaza-isnt-fighting-sexual-violence/

I dislike the interpretation that the sexual violence is being politicised. People who make that accusation would prefer that it was kept quiet, denied or downplayed.

Such an extreme, violent attack against civilians including the sexual assaults is the reason for the operation in Gaza. Reason, not "justification".

@SomeCatFromJapan I agree with you