Justifying the rape of women

[armchairactivist1]

Something I keep coming back to.. for the people whose sympathies lie with the Palestinians and think an eye for an eye and that Hamas have been pushed to act the way they have, how do you justify the brutal rape of women by Hamas?
Post edited by MNHQ

www.jns.org/why-the-left-must-lie-about-hamas-and-rape/

oh give over with that BS!

Rape is wrong, its evil, its not a left vs right issue and neither is the state of Israel, which has, in international law, an absolute right to exist.

What it hasn't the right though is to go into the West Bank and kick out the Palestinians, in many cases, killing them without sanction.

Nor the right to break international law & wilfully kill Palestinians in Gaza, the body bags with dead babies in them having died of starvation or lack of oxygen i saw on Sky today was shocking, the IDF can stop that from happening, without it curtailing their hunt for Hamas terrorists.

Indeed.

Seen lots of this on MN. Its quite sickening.

Why is it not OK to just condemn rape without the 'but its not alright for Israel to .....'.

The article concentrates on why people deny rape when it's against some women and turn themselves into knots trying to minimise, deny, pick holes, say its Israel so must be lying, made up etc. Then change the subject to but .....

Nope, you made that connection.

Rape is evil as i said, condemned where ever it is done, to who & with zero justification, there is none.

I made my further statements because that is what Israel should and is rightly being criticised for, i ve no time for idiots who try to minimise or justify Hamas and their atrocities.... though it does seem ok for you and others to bring in left vs right... its not.

I ve no time for what Hamas did on 7/10, it needs to be atoned for but the ordinary Gazan is not Hamas.

This is so political, it’s in my opinion more about benefitting Israeli propaganda than the victims.

#believeallwomen

#dontbelieveIsraelipropoganda

Since this is a thread about rape I assumed that's what is bring discussed. There are hundreds of threads on any number of other things.

The article was interesting. People do appear to have bias against the Israeli victims as could be seen immediately following and numerous comments along the lines of where's the proof /don't believe anything Israelis say etc etc....it clear to see. They forgot to use rape tests kits on dead women, so how do you know that missing underwear means rape blah blah etc etc. The witness statements denied too. On and on.

You don't see it though. The article demonstrated it with examples, did you read it?

Well I can separate the women from the Israeli government.

This is not an objective source. It is funded by the Adelson group which is an organisation dedicated to strengthening the State of Israel. Senator Adeldon has been criticised for secretly buying up and grant aiding newspapers to influence public opinion strategicallly( source Forward Jewish independent non profit). One of his journals has been called Bibiton because of is laudatory coverage of Mr Netanyahu

@XRAYTHIS
The report was very restrained in its description of some elements of the Zaka scandal and despite the Israeli governments exploitation of some of Zaka’s fraudulent accounts of the aftermath of the 7/10 they still took what was presented by Israel at face value. I think they were very fair and I have read the entire report.

You say to me the report was very fair, in your opinion, and to previous poster that it was not an objective source.

The report by the UN was fair but I felt that restraint and stripping was evidence of degrading treatment and likely of a sexual nature.

I do not believe that the Jewish News Syndicate is objective because of how it is funded.

And I think Apple News is an agregate news ap so I think that it feeds you what you want to read unless you’re careful with your settings

Exactly it was fair with the info Israel had provided. Even the un can’t proof many things and criticised that Israel got in the way and it’s not willing to fully cooperate

It's always someone else's fault....

I have a lot more respect for those pro Palestinian posters who bring our attention to the terrible situation in Gaza but don’t try to minimise the horror of October 7

How am I minimising the horror of 7-10 when I’m talking about what the UNs report says. I think the report would be more fair if Israel would help more and some mistakes hadn’t been done by zaka

@EasterIssland your opinion will be passed on love. Ta.

@Limesodaagain completely agreed. There are some fantastic and considerate posters on here.

Have you even bothered reading the document produced by UN?

ps. No need to love. We are not friends

Women and girls were raped, tortured, taken hostage and killed. It’s horrific. We don’t need to quibble about the details. We know enough to know it happened. You’re criticising Israeli cooperation with the UN but as you’re a pro Palestinian poster your quibbles come across as if you’re using the rape of Israeli women as a reason to blame the Israel government.

( Palestinians are starving- that’s horrific too. I wouldn’t quibble about the exact percentage that are starving. We know enough to know innocent Palestinians are suffering)

Some pro-Israeli posters come across as if they are using the issue to further the narrative that everyone who disagrees with the way Israel has handled this doesn’t believe women, is antisemitic, and as though what happened on Oct 7th, is justification for the disproportionate response.
That this issue has been politicised by people (especially men), who wouldn’t normally give a rat arse about sexual violence against women makes me feel sick.
It’s ridiculous to politicise the issue and then try to claim the moral high ground. Once again people’s lives are tools to further the narratives that help powerful men.
Also, if anyone generally believe there was no sexual violence on 7th October or that witnesses who were actual victims made stuff up then they need to seriously check themselves.

I haven’t seen any posts on this thread that use Oct 7th as “justification for the disproportionate response “
. I have seen posts that nitpick about the degree and extent of the horrors of October 7th.

I agree with your last paragraph.

https://www.un.org/sexualviolenceinconflict/press-release/israel-west-bank-mission/

I don't know if this particular link has been shared. If it has, I apologise for the duplication.

I think part of the challenge with the report is that its remit wasn't to carry out a full investigation but to gather information to guide on what a full investigation would need to look like. To compare it with UK criminal justice processes, it seems more akin to an initial summary of evidence rather than the final submission to a court.

However, because of the high stakes, breakdowns of trust, and general bias in most societies against women in situations where women report having experienced sexual assault or harm, demands and expectations are being placed on the report that it cannot meet, as it is a preliminary stage in the investigation.

To bring perpetrators to justice, there will need to be a full investigation. At that point, there may well be a critique of some of the evidence-gathering, forensic analysis and reliability of accounts, as is normal in investigations. Robust examination of evidence is an important part of the justice process. But it needs to be tempered by recognition of the bias against women reporting sexual violence (evidence in these cases is often held to a higher standard than in other cases where non sexual violence is reported, especially against men rather than women).

I read yesterday from Israeli sources that a full investigation has started into how Oct 7th happened.

I've read the whole report too and agree with your posts.