Justifying the rape of women

[armchairactivist1]

Something I keep coming back to.. for the people whose sympathies lie with the Palestinians and think an eye for an eye and that Hamas have been pushed to act the way they have, how do you justify the brutal rape of women by Hamas?
Post edited by MNHQ

Do you have a non-paywalled link?

Okay, found a link. It sounds like a dreadful friendly fire incident but there is no implication that the IDF deliberately decided to murder the hostages. The report states that the Hamas commander in the house had exited it and surrendered. It reads like a tragic miscommunication.

Your accusation is actually quite shocking in light of that.

I am just catching up with this thread a bit and I don't understand why people appear to be defending Zaka?
They do appear to be responsible for spreading mis-information which in turn has led to skepticism regarding information from Israel. I am assuming they were responsible for the untrue baby in the oven story which made headline news here in the Daily Mail.

I have read some of the UN report and it is absolutely horrendous.

The UN report does mention and explain how untrained volunteers (maybe Zaka?) have misinterpreted certain things. Those things then have have become stories spread all over here and elsewhere. I am being deliberately vague.

It is important that the truth is known because a little bit of untruth undermines the actual truth which is bad enough anyhow.

Link about Zaka

Israeli org. Zaka fabricated Oct. 7 allegations to solicit don... (jordannews.jo)

Report 20240304-Israel-oWB-CRSV-report.pdf (un.org)

No that's not the full story as told by the hostage. The two surviving hostages who wrote demanding an investigation and the reason why there now is one.

Yes, why would anyone be unhappy about you coming on a thread about rape denial to deny rape, posting links from a website full or articles about how all Zionists are evil and Jewish people are the real terrorists and Netanyahu isnt even Jewish and also Jewish people don't exist anyway. It would be funny if it wasn't so depressing.

@qunari Where am I denying rape or anything else you accuse me of?

But go ahead because it shows in clear light how you react to any reasonable comments or questions.

The article about Zaka is quoting Israeli press.

@qunari Maybe we can now talk about Zaka ZAKA exploited Hamas's October 7 attack to campaign for donations - report | The Times of Israel

This is so blatantly obvious - you're just finding anything at all to undermine and cast doubt on the core horror, just picking away. Hamas PR department in action.

Maybe you can start your own thread about it.

I agree it wasn’t implied that the IDF decided to deliberately murder Israeli civilians, because it was explicitly stated by the IDF commander when he gave the order to the tanks to open fire:

”Israeli news outlets had previously quoted survivors of the massacre saying that an Israeli tank had fired on a house where Hamas fighters were holding hostages during the lengthy battle to retake Be’eri. In an article published on Friday by The New York Times, the Israeli commander who led the fight detailed how he had authorized tank fire to end what was already an hourslong standoff — “even at the cost of civilian casualties.”

”Israeli news outlets had previously quoted survivors of the massacre saying that an Israeli tank had fired on a house where Hamas fighters were holding hostages during the lengthy battle to retake Be’eri. In an article published on Friday by The New York Times, the Israeli commander who led the fight detailed how he had authorized tank fire to end what was already an hourslong standoff — “even at the cost of civilian casualties.”

And where does it state what his motivation was? Perhaps that is in the NYT article, which I can't read as it's paywalled.

Also what the fuck does that have to do with the mass rapes?

@qunari agreed.

@Silence1 if you want to start your own thread on Zaka feel free but that's not what this thread is about. Sad that you clearly despise Jewish women so much you feel the need to nitpick on a rape thread. What happened to you?

www.ynetnews.com/article/bk7srn4pt

Asking the U.N. security council to convene to discuss sexual violence report.

It’s not behind a paywall. I read it for free. The commander decided to sacrifice the lives of the hostages. How much more clear can it be? Here is what the commander told NYT happened:
”As the dusk approached, the SWAT commander and General Hiram began to argue. The SWAT commander thought more kidnappers might surrender. The general wanted the situation resolved by nightfall.
Minutes later, the militants launched a rocket-propelled grenade, according to the general and other witnesses who spoke to The Times.
“The negotiations are over,” General Hiram recalled telling the tank commander. “Break in, even at the cost of civilian casualties.”
The tank fired two light shells at the house.
Shrapnel from the second shell hit Mr. Dagan in the neck, severing an artery and killing him, his wife said.
During the melee, the kidnappers were also killed.
Only two of the 14 hostages — Ms. Dagan and Ms. Porat — survived.”

As for what it has to do with rape, I don’t know, I thought the thread had moved on because this event has been discussed on the past two pages of this thread. Perhaps I should be asking you that question?

@BabaBarrio it's literally the title of the thread despite efforts to derail.

It is being a paywall. It's the NYT, it's a paywalled news service.
Why ask me that question, I'm not the one on the thread hellbent on undermining and distraction.

Asking the U.N. security council to convene to discuss sexual violence report.

Thank you for posting that. I think it's so important that what those women suffered doesn't get lost in all the noise, and all the lies and deliberate attempts to twist the truth.

Imagine coming out to bat for a terrorist organisation by undermining sexual violence.

I cut and pasted part of it for you, for free. It’s not a paywall. It’s a subscription offer.

Anyway, why did you ask me what the tank fire at kibbutz Ber’ei has to do with mass rapes when you kicked off the whole topic by asking another poster for evidence of IDF shooting people to stop them being hostages. See below.

You then went back and forth discussing this for HOURS before I joined the thread and responded to the top post on this page of the thread.

You can’t blame me for a distraction you asked for hours before I even came onto the thread.

This from the link is quite important to me

“The UN report also said there had been allegations of sexual violence against Palestinians in Israeli custody, including "unwanted touching of intimate areas" and "prolonged forced nudity" in detention settings, during house raids and at checkpoints after 7 October.
The report said that while no instances of rape against Palestinians were reported, conservative cultural norms could have impeded reporting of sexual assault.
Israel's foreign ministry rejected this part of the report.
"That is a derisive and deliberate Palestinian manoeuvre aimed at creating an intolerable equivalence between the horrific crimes that were committed, and continue to be committed, by Hamas and malicious and baseless claims made against Israel and Israelis," Mr Haiat said.
Mr Haiat also said Israel opposed a recommendation made in the report that the country co-operate with the UN's international Commission of Inquiry, which is trying to conduct an investigation into potential war crimes on all sides.”

With this that I’ve seen

“UN's Pramila Patten admits that all her information comes directly from the Israeli regime, and that it blocks UN agencies with an actual investigative mandate from doing independent investigations into their propaganda claims”

https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1764771314600952192

All this info to me discards UNs opinion, I don’t reject there were rapes on that day. But I can’t take neither all the info UN has provided because it’s coming directly from Israel who is blocking any Independent investigation and at the same time is rejecting rapes that have happened on Palestinians.

Yes I know, I was last on the thread weeks ago. I come back and it looked to me that the conversation had moved on, as they do.

So I joined in on the current conversation on this thread, by replying to a recent post by SomeCatFromJapan to answer their following question about an event they and other posters had discussed.

Now I am being attacked left, right and centre by SomeCatFromJapan commenting on this topic when they initiated the whole topic in the first place by asking for evidence and then asking questions about it!!

If it is a derail, SomeCatFromJapan started and kept it going by asking for evidence on deaths of hostages by IDF.

Latest from BICOM ;-

The UN yesterday released its official report on atrocities committed by Hamas in the course of the October 7th massacre. The report confirms widespread sexual assault during the attack, including proof of rape, rape of dead bodies, naked and bound women being shot at the scene of the Nova music festival, and genital mutilation of bodies.

Pramila Patten, the UN Special Representative on Sexual Violence in Conflict, also said that there was “clear and convincing information that sexual violence including rape, sexualised torture, cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment” of hostages being held in Gaza.

However, the UN failed to ascribe the widespread sexual violence to Hamas specifically, on the grounds that members of Palestinian Islamic Jihad and other Gazans participated in October 7th.

Israeli Foreign Minister Yisrael Katz called Israeli Ambassador to the UN Gilad Erdan back to Jerusalem for consultations on an Israeli response to what he called an “attempt to silence the grave UN report about the acts of mass rape that were committed by Hamas and its helpers on October 7.”

Katz also accused UN Secretary General Guterres of “acting to soften the serious report that he himself ordered on the sexual offences of Hamas, trying to keep Hamas from being held responsible...”

My italics

@EasterIssland
I don’t understand why Israel is not allowing human rights and UN officials into the country to investigate both the Oct 7th rapes and sexual violence by Hamas and the reports of sexual assaults of Palestinian women in Gaza, West Bank and their military prison system by IDF?

Surely that is a major cause of the delay to being able to report on the extent and number of these sexual crimes and only increasing the chances that the criminals will not be identified or brought to justice?

Please see my post above of 17.33 ^

I have, and it’s clear that because the UN cannot go into Israel to independently investigate the rapes, that is why they could not ascribe them all to Hamas or state Hamas had deliberately weaponized rape. The UN doesn’t take any country, any party’s word on anything they always have to send in independent investigators on anything and everything.