Justifying the rape of women

[armchairactivist1]

Something I keep coming back to.. for the people whose sympathies lie with the Palestinians and think an eye for an eye and that Hamas have been pushed to act the way they have, how do you justify the brutal rape of women by Hamas?
Post edited by MNHQ

Oh, you're back. Any comment on the rape denial on here since you last posted?

Glad you have missed me.
I think I’ve always say a rape is a rape and that it’s despicable.

Ok but I asked specifically about the ongoing rape denial, as that's what we keep being told isn't happening. So I hope you, and others, can now accept that it is happening and that it's a massive issue.

Not sure why are you asking me when I’ve never denied rapes happened on 7-10. Same way I’ve never denied rapes committed by IDF.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/un-expert-on-sexual-violence-believes-hostages-in-gaza-are-still-being-abused/

What a surprise.

I'm sure the "Hamas treated the hostages well" crowd will find an excuse.

Some are 😪and some aren't . I think Hamas regards hostages' lives as more valuable/important than Israel does
‘We were constantly in terror’: Israeli hostage tells of captivity in Gaza | Israel-Gaza war | The Guardian

think Hamas regards hostages' lives as more valuable/important than Israel does

That's a new low, even for this section.

How? It appears IDF did shoot people to prevent them becoming hostages? I have read often in Israeli news outlets about the belief that hostages should be sacrificed for the greater good ?
In fact I read that some of the Israel hostages family members said the hostages were not as important as crushing Hamas so if they had to be sacrificed so be it. But in the same article other hostage family members said those family members were plants by the Israeli govt to justify hostage deaths . Confused yet?
Then in the article I linked above, the hostage says she was told they were valuable and she says their guards shielded them with their own bodies from Israel attacks.

So what say you ?

Well since Hamas terrorists shot her husband in the chest up close and her daughter in the face killing them both, your comment is in extremely poor taste.

Disgusted. How vile.

Yes, arrived just after your comment.

Don't be ridiculous. Hamas take hostages for bargaining chips.
Presumably they are worth more alive than dead?
I did not say that means they treat them well. Nobody is being treated well in Gaza at the minute.

I read that. I also watched the Hamas commander on Channel 4 tonight say that all killings were justified on 7th October. All pretty fecking chilling.

However the one remark you picked up on - I was talking about the status levels of the hostages currently to Hamas and Israel and reflecting on what the hostage in the link referred to ie they were valuable to their guards and they tried keep them alive.

@Silence1 extremely poor taste.

But in the same article other hostage family members said those family members were plants by the Israeli govt to justify hostage deaths

What article? @Silence1

The whole situation in Gaza is in poor taste.

I don't have time to find it for you right now . It was a few months back. The hostage families ended up very upset .
Don't worry when I have time I will find it but an early start beckons.

@stomachamelon I think it was this article, now behind a paywall

A very quick skim read of other articles tonight suggest that it was not an Israeli Govt plant but this hostage family who say

"The Mor family and two other hostages’ families founded the Tikva Forum, a loosely organized group whose public members are mostly religious and right-wing. They share the belief that military pressure, not an immediate cease-fire or hostage release deal, is the best way to bring their loved ones home.
Mor said his critics can’t understand how he could put his ideology above the natural response to seek the safe return of loved ones. He and others in the forum say they are being rational and that their critics are being led by their emotions."

Families of Kidnapped Israelis Meet Netanyahu, Only to Find Unknown Family Boosting PM - Israel News - Haaretz.com

Pramila Patten, UN Special Representative on Sexual Violence in Conflict has finally said there is “clear and convincing information” of rape and sexualized torture on 7 October and also against hostages.

It only took 5 months.

Finally, will the deniers see this though. Some twist themselves in knots saying it didn't happen.

appears IDF did shoot people to prevent them becoming hostages?

Evidence for this?

A good point.

I wish someone would define what they mean by this word "proportionate" that keeps being trotted out.

This was at the top of a google search:
"When armed forces engage in conflict, they must carefully consider the balance between achieving their military objectives and minimizing harm to civilians and civilian infrastructure. The principle of proportionality prohibits attacks on military targets that would cause excessive collateral damage—such as loss of civilian lives, injuries, or damage to civilian objects—compared to the direct military advantage anticipated from the attack.
In other words:
Military commanders must weigh the importance of their objectives against the likelihood of civilian casualties and infrastructure damage.
The effects of warfare methods and means used should not be disproportionate to the military advantage sought.
This principle aims to limit harm caused by military operations and ensure that the impact on civilians remains reasonable and justifiable within the context of armed conflict. It’s a delicate balance that seeks to protect both military interests and civilian well-being."
I hope this answers your question.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68474899

BBC article summarising the UN's views on this.

Of course There is this incident finally being investigated after the testimony of two hostages Israeli Army Probing Death of 12 Hostages in Kibbutz Be'eri House Shelled on Orders of Senior Officer - Israel News - Haaretz.com

The families had to stop the house being knocked down so a proper investigation could happen.

There is the incident if the commander ordering fire on his own base and soldiers.
There's more and if you are genuinely interested I am sure you can find it. Just watch out for the fake stuff.