Justifying the rape of women

[armchairactivist1]

Something I keep coming back to.. for the people whose sympathies lie with the Palestinians and think an eye for an eye and that Hamas have been pushed to act the way they have, how do you justify the brutal rape of women by Hamas?
Post edited by MNHQ

All this info to me discards UNs opinion, I don’t reject there were rapes on that day. But I can’t take neither all the info UN has provided because it’s coming directly from Israel who is blocking any Independent investigation and at the same time is rejecting rapes that have happened on Palestinians.

Honestly I just don't have words for how this makes me feel. This is just such an awful thing to say. I think it says a lot about your biases tbh.

Has anyone seen the report from UN? It’s linked In the Twitter I’ve posted above but only some of it , so keen to check it all as from the screenshots UN basically is saying we think there were rapes based on what Israel has told us but we’ve not managed to verify it by ourselves, also the pics that Israel has provided we can’t fully say whether there were rapes. Also Israel is not cooperating in further investigations to be done

I remember when I believe her was first championed by Mumsnet, back in the early days of the feminist board.

Im talking about the UN report. Do you have a link to it so I can read it please

I have no problem believing these grim little men would seize this opportunity to get their perverted power kicks. It’s incredibly disappointing that evidence wasn’t properly collected, whoever was responsible for coordinating this has let down the victims and their families.

Exactly, I don’t feel the victims have been properly protected and we have to rely on information provided by a party who is not fully allowing independent investigation and refusing to cooperate on it.

i believe I’ve found it for anyone that might. E keen to read lt

https://www.un.org/sexualviolenceinconflict/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/report/mission-report-official-visit-of-the-office-of-the-srsg-svc-to-israel-and-the-occupied-west-bank-29-january-14-february-2024/20240304-Israel-oWB-CRSV-report.pdf

And disappointing that people will use it as an excuse to disbelieve rape victims. Not that they need one generally.

It's not just the UN report though, is it. You're casting doubt on that for whatever reason but there is plenty of other evidence - witness testimony, including some by victims themselves, and reported in various international media outlets, the evidence provided by Hamas itself in the form of video footage, etc. It seems that anything that has come out of Israel- a developed country with forensic teams and police investigators and all the other things that 21st century countries have - isn't good enough for you unless it has been independently verified by someone else.

Unfortunately this is what women the world over face when it comes to rape and sexual assault. It is so hard to prove and one of the main reasons only a tiny percentage of cases ever make it to court and a tiny percentage of those get a successful conviction.
I have no doubt these women were raped and sexually assaulted but the problem is proving who did it. I very much doubt Hamas terrorists are on the Israeli DNA database and without that vital piece of evidence denials will persist. So unfortunately the UNs report is as much as they can conclude at this stage. As women we do need to stand with all women who have been assaulted in this way, who did it should not be relevant they should be believed and supported

I agree with your last sentence. Sorry I’ve seen too many lies coming out of Israel so I’d want someone independent to verify it. The information UN has to do this report has been provided by Israel directly. UN has not managed to contact the victims directly. (Point 55 of the pdf I’ve posted). They also say that some of the info that was first published (few rapes and related with the pregnant woman) they don’t believe it happened

Christ almighty. This was not an assault in someone's bedroom after a few drinks where a jury can say oh well who can say what actually happened. This was a large scale assault with multiple witnesses and video footage.

Apologies I just read back over my post and I meant to say
I have no doubt these women were raped and sexually assaulted by Hamas but the problem is proving who did it. By that I mean what individuals

Israel has a grand total of seven forensic pathologists in the entire country, who were tasked with examining and identifying hundreds of mutilated and desecrated corpses. I’m sure they’d be mortified to hear of your disappointment in their work. Maybe you can also put in a complaint about the degradation of evidence caused by the lack of adequate storage facilities due to the overwhelming number of bodies.

I’ll correct my sentence. I don’t take what the news are saying that UN had found convincing information. Whilst they’ve found it, it’s only what Israel has wanted to provide them (i.e they’re not willing to cooperate on the rapes on Palestinians)

Fair enough I was just trying, clumsily, to point out how difficult it can be to prove but that difficulty should not be used by some to suggest it didn't happen

I think UN might be a bit disappointed as well. (53)

Do you a consider a snide little attempt at point scoring over the chaotic aftermath of a terrorist attack, which killed and injured thousands, to be a helpful contribution here?

“ a bit disappointed “ is a coldly sarcastic nasty quip .

I am allowed to be disappointed by the way the evidence was handled.
Is it not OK for me to be upset for the victims and their families?
Or are you one of those people who will never criticise anything Israel does?
When evidence of rape isn’t collected properly it does a disservice to the person who it was committed against. One of the reasons it is so hard to convict anyone for rape is because it is hard to prove. Oh, and of course because it mostly happens to women.

I was referring to @EasterIssland‘s comment.
I don’t think it’s appropriate to use flippant sarcasm in a discussion about rape.

It seems you are willing to accept that Palestinians were raped but demand more compelling evidence for rapes of Israelis - despite the video evidence , the witness statements and the mutilated dead bodies? Or have I misunderstood?

Yes you have misunderstood
I believe Israelis and Palestinians have been raped. I do hope that the investigation could be fully done without Israel getting on the way (this investigation has only been done with the information israel has provided and refused to let investigation to be done about Palestinian rapes). I also hope , that the mistakes that were done after 7/10 by some organisations in the aftermath, can be learnt , addressed and in the event of something similar happening again anywhere they’re not repeated. Some of the mistakes that were done by zaka are addressed by UN in their report and why some of the rapes have been discarded and some not verified.