Justifying the rape of women

[armchairactivist1]

Something I keep coming back to.. for the people whose sympathies lie with the Palestinians and think an eye for an eye and that Hamas have been pushed to act the way they have, how do you justify the brutal rape of women by Hamas?
Post edited by MNHQ

What I can't understand is how any human being can look at the videos of traumatised children with no-one left to comfort them and think that that is justifiable revenge for the actions of some rapists.

And that some people think there are levels of rape
if you get raped by during the war , oh well shit happens sorry about that

wtf ? A rape is a rape. We should be as angry at one type of rape as the other one

You've said on here before that you don't think rapes happened on October 7th.

I think there are levels of rape. Most rapes do not include dismemberment and torture.

@qunari that's very true unfortunately.

@Dibilnik and being raped in front of and including close members of your family. Disgusting.

I mean... All rape is absolutely disgusting. And surely rape in itself must be considered torture. There is no excuse for any rape, ever. There is no excuse for sexual violence, ever.

Based on who resurrected this thread by posting, I'm going to assume it's going to have something to do with Palestinians being raped and they've come on to this specific thread to try and stir up some shit in a pretty insensitive way, but each to their own. Either way, if anyone is being raped it's a fucking disgrace and I hope the perpetrators are caught and dealt with. I haven't seen the actual accusations, just seen posts referring to it being denied, so I don't have anything else to add.

@Humdingerydoo just saw that.

There is no excuse for sexual violence of any kind to anyone. It's not rocket science.

The thread title says “Justifying the rape of women”

3 posters over the weekend have told me that the Hamas rapes are far worse than those perform on Palestinian women’s during detention cuz it’s a war.

i want to understand what levels of rape there are according to these posters. To me any rape is disgraceful and shouldn’t have happened ans there are no levels of rape. nobody should be minimising it and justifying it. To you I’m trying to stir up some shit in a pretty insensitive way, 🤷🏻‍♀️

@EasterIssland did you ask them then?
You haven't @ anybody?

All rape is wrong and all rapists need to be brought to justice. Israeli, Palestinian, any ethnicity or religion, nobody should be subjected to sexual violence.

As far as I can see, there is evidence of horrific sexual violence in the 7/10 atrocities and evidence of horrific sexual violence within the context of detained Palestinians. Different contexts but both abhorrent and needing justice.

Yes. They want proof that these rapes have happened which I’ve provided. Also have used the shit happens it’s a war card and which they’ve been challenged about and they’ve decided to ignore.

@EasterIssland I really dislike (seems too weak a word) the fact we demand evidence for rape full stop.
What happened to believing women?
It's inexcusable whatever the circumstances.

Agree with you

I do not accept the "shit happens in war" argument. Yes, shit happens in war but rape or other sexual violence should not be one of them. Shit happens in war because people are fighting for their lives. Raping someone won't help save your life so there is no fucking excuse for it.

Isn’t that the crux of the issue though - that Israel failed to carry out autopsies, didn’t photograph bodies, didn’t take rape kits, didn’t swab bodies, and won’t allow any independent investigation to be carried out. Sexual violence is not being taken seriously at all, other than being weaponised to justify the targeted bombing of children, journalists, hospitals.

The one woman named as a rape victim has had her family deny this, and accuse the NYT reporter (a former IDF intelligence officer who had never worked as a journalist previously but has a suspect online history regarding creating narratives to “scare Westerners”) of lying to them. These victims deserve their deaths being investigated, but Israel has blocked this justice.

https://www.gov.il/BlobFolder/news/arcci-submits-first-report-to-un-21-feb-2024/en/EnglishSwordssofIronnDOCUMENTS_ARCCI%20report%20-%20Hamas%20sexual%20crimes%20on%20october%207.pdf

Trigger warning....

So @Fancylike are you saying that you don't think rape and other sexual violence happened on October 7th? Or do you still think it happened but you enjoy upsetting people by having them discuss it and prove it over and over again?

@Humdingerydoo thank goodness for the video evidence eh.... what with the rape victims being dead and everything?

Israel has been doing forensic autopsies on all the victims of 7/10. It has been investigated from the very start, it is just a painstaking process. Israel hasn’t “blocked justice”!

These are medical staff doing it, so are considered to be independent. Their autopsy reports will be submitted to the ICC and ICJ to bring specific war criminals and leaders of Hamas to justice.
https://www.ynetnews.com/article/sj62yy7na

There’s no mention of autopsies in that link, only eye witness testimony from groups like ZAKA which were responsible for the beheaded babies lie.
Officials were quoted in the NYT article that zero autopsies were conducted, were they lying then?

It doesn’t matter what I think happened. It does matter that families have not been given a cause of death for their loved ones or are having claims they say are false made about them to justify killing children. Claiming a dead woman was raped and mutilated when it’s unlikely to be true based on what her family has said is diabolical, her family is distraught that a religious extremism group like Zaka has done this to monetize her death.

If discussion about alleged sexual assaults upsets you, I’d suggest not reading threads about it.

‘yeah that's bad, but ...'

This whole argument need to end, full stop.

We must not use it to justify the hideous rape of Israeli women by Hamas’ butchers.
We must not use it to justify the massacre of thousands of Palestinians by IDF murderers.

Each act is heinous, cruel and utterly wrong. Innocent people do not deserve this and one is not a defence for the other. So many people do it from ‘both sides’ and it makes me sick.

I am from a scientific background and know the importance of evidence and accurate reporting. But for some reason, in this war I find the obsession for legally -verified objective evidence at every stage really distasteful.

From social media reports and eye-witness accounts, I would say there is a reasonable amount of ‘soft evidence’ that Israeli women were horrifically raped and that the Israeli government has killed many innocent Palestinian civilians. It’s all devastating. The nitpicking makes me feel really uncomfortable. Maybe I am wrong for feeling that, I don’t know.

@NewWaterBottle it's an excuse to undermine and sew the seeds out of doubt wrapped up in faux concern. It's disgusting and shouldn't be allowed on here.

Just when I think we have evolved and taken steps to as a community it is dragged Back into the gutter by certain parties.

It's is obvious what happened.
The footage is there (and now sadly available)
There is no room for doubt.

You do you do.