Justifying the rape of women

[armchairactivist1]

Something I keep coming back to.. for the people whose sympathies lie with the Palestinians and think an eye for an eye and that Hamas have been pushed to act the way they have, how do you justify the brutal rape of women by Hamas?
Post edited by MNHQ

Do you really think that that poor girl whose naked body was paraded to be spat on undressed herself for fun?

Are we supposed to just believe it without any evidence?
It's hard to argue with someone who won't accept evidence unless it's the firsthand account of women who are dead.

Same here. I’m not Jewish but find it distressing for the reasons you and @MableT say

Are we supposed to just believe it without any evidence?
It's hard to argue with someone who won't accept evidence unless it's the firsthand account of women who are dead.

I suspect even that won't do.

@VeronicaM27 no I didn't say I saw footage of actual rapes in progress, I said what I did see persuaded me that claims of rapes were highly plausible and in fact it was highly unlikely that mass rapes did not occur.

I'd just like to clarify that rape is utterly horrific and nothing justifies it.

Just like nothing justifies killing over 4,000 innocent children.

If you think Israel is justified in killing these children then you hold no moral superiority over me.

What has the deaths of the children got to do with the rape issue? 🤔

Right, what evidence would you like? You've already been sent a link with a video of a victim who was raped, scalped, stabbed, not necessarily in that order. I have a video of a school right next to a weapons factory, or a scout building used to launch rockets. Hamas filmed themselves massacring and kidnapping so you presumably don't need any further evidence of that. They also filmed themselves stomping and spitting on people (dead and alive) that they brought into Gaza. What other lies would you like us to debunk for you today? What can we possibly do to convince you that all these horrendous things happened?

It did occur to me that posters like this might just be deliberately twisting the knife. I hope that's not the case, but it seems that we are only [re-]traumatising ourselves by sharing this kind of information. It appears to make no dent in the indifference.

The constant demands for evidence and footage of rapes do appear quite prurient.

I think it’s a tactic

What to do about that I’m not sure other than to say it’s repellent

I agree there are some posters that seem to deliberately post provocative content to stir the pot. If you're in any doubt please report to MN.

@Humdingerydoo

Where did I say that all of these horrendous things didn't happen?

I was specifically asking if there were any verified sources that confirm rape occurred. I also acknowledged in my previous post that these questions were in poor taste and have agreed not to bring it up again.

On whether Hamas raped women when they invaded, it is possible that may be proven as there might be DNA from their semen in the bodies (I don't think they used condoms) https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/11/08/israel-rape-charges-hamas-terrorists-war/. Hamas did have go pro cameras on so I believe some of their actions like murdering families including babies are almost certainly proven. However the extremist mindset and with 50% of those in Gaza under 18 means young children even of 10 can have been brought up to be a bit like those cubs of the caliphate under ISIS - that does not mean it is okay to do this (ti is not and yet another reason Israel should prevail) but means it is no surprise as to what they might do.

You actually need to stop now with your denial of what happened. It's really quite disgusting.

Reuters seems to disagree as do other news outlets.

https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/video-captured-woman-mistranslates-captor-threatening-rape-2023-11-08/

Because various characters are suggesting that this is an ok consequence following 7/10.

@Bigminnie1 Since when does asking for a credible source equal denying what happened?

I think in a time like this with so much disinformation flying we should all be making sure we get our information from credible sources.

@PurpleCrocs3 it's the constant faux naivety... the constant questioning... the refusal to acknowledge and the constant coming back asking for more and more proof. The insinuation that all or some of the terrible events that happened on Oct 7th are lies.
On so many threads, not just this one.

And that's why I am disgusted.

@Bigminnie1 I think some of the posters engaging in this kind of behaviour and controversial questioning posts are not who they say they are and are out to cause trouble.

Reuters seems to disagree as do other news outlets.

They are talking about one specific incident that isn't even what's being discussed here, which is that many of the now dead victims were allegedly raped.

I totally agree. It's just so upsetting.

So many could be reported under "hate speech" and "personal attack" that I think we have to show the poor MN moderators some mercy! Rather them than me trying to keep things civilised on this forum.

This is a bit of a sidetrack, but...

I don't speak Arabic, but I have worked as an interpreter in other languages. Sometimes a literal translation does not convey the cultural connotations of a word, so important to grasp its full meaning.

According to the link you posted:
He uses the Arabic term “sabia”, translating to “female captive” or “female prisoner of war.

From what I've seen, it's quite possible that Hamas consider it their God-given duty to rape and humiliate female prisoners of war. (It certainly looks like it, and there was a thread posted last night with a nutty Muslim woman apparently declaring this.) Somehow, I can't really see them just offering their female prisoners a nice cup of tea.

That would be fine if we saw the same scepticism applied in both directions. Instead, whole threads are started and kept alive by a constant barrage of images and statistics hastily copy/pasted from social media, as though this is just a Facebook feed and no one else has either access to news sources or the capacity to find things out for themselves. It gets a bit wearing, e.g. last night when someone posted a news story about an 11-year-old girl raped by Israelis, as though this was the gang rape of a Palestinian girl. If they'd even bothered to read the article, they'd have found it was reporting on an IDF officer's daughter who had sex with numerous blokes on the army base by passing herself off as an older teen. Not great, obviously, but not the shit-stirring story the poster intended.