Justifying the rape of women

[armchairactivist1]

Something I keep coming back to.. for the people whose sympathies lie with the Palestinians and think an eye for an eye and that Hamas have been pushed to act the way they have, how do you justify the brutal rape of women by Hamas?
Post edited by MNHQ

@SomeCatFromJapan I've just read the eyewitness statement. I'm not trying to be awkward but there's nothing there to verify the source. Anyone could have written it. Has it been picked up by anyone in the mainstream media, who could perhaps verify it?

@armchairactivist1 I'm sorry, my post was a right rant and far too emotional. I think I need a break from watching, viewing, reading and discussing this subject (I am aware of my privilege of being able to do that). Every day I just see saw between the horror and I can feel myself getting manipulated and I hate it. It just feels like everyone bun fighting about it is playing directly into the hands of the 'divide and conquer' world stage and I honestly think we are being forced to be partisan about it all. I also know everyone, including you, has a right to discuss and ask questions about it. Sorry again.

I am just going to put this here…

That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not [ the attacker’s] fault.
And if it was, they didn't mean it.
And if they did, [ the jews] deserved it.

@GrandmasMeatloaf

That could perfectly describe Israel's response to everything they're doing in Gaza right now.

@VeronicaM27 what were your thoughts on the accompanying image?

I appreciate that that, too, could theoretically have come from anywhere. But what I will say convinced me about the veracity of at least the majority of the claims around October 7 is that the fucking idiot terrorists were putting footage all over social media in real time, so I saw quite a bit before it was taken down/blurred/censored and before the inevitable propaganda and minimisation began.
What I saw was definitely enough for me to find the rest of the claims at least plausible.

Oh dear, I hadn't realised that what you're after is a firsthand account by a woman who was raped.

You do realise that it wasn't just sex?

That they were killed, during, before, or after being raped?

That they were mutilated, during, before, or after being raped?

That hordes of "ordinary Gazans" flocked in to help themselves to trophies - limbs, eyes, scalps - to flaunt when they got home, presumably to the cheers of the same crowds that spat on Shani Louk's increasingly broken body (I can't help wondering just how her legs got to bend the other way round when the knees were intact when she was first loaded onto the truck)?

The corpses were defiled with glee.

I suspect even Hamas got more than they bargained for. What was meant to be a semi-military operation to kill and take captives turned into a free-for-all.

The trouble is that the people who "could have written it" in your terms are not longer around to speak.

Israel's motto! (Just replace the word "Jews" with the word "Palestinians".

@SomeCatFromJapan Why was the footage taken down?

There are thousands of videos from what's happening in Gaza that are equally horrific and they haven't been taken down.

@SomeCatFromJapan Just to clarify, are you saying you saw footage of Hamas raping women that has since been taken down?

@Weddingpuzzle no please don't apologise, you were absolutely right and I feel exactly the same. I think I came here out of shock at some of the views I've seen expressed thinking surely most people don't think like this and hoping most people are on the side of humanity rather than right/wrong, bad guy/good guy. (But I do appreciate that my post has been edited.) I certainly wouldn't look at footage or any accounts I've seen from Gaza and think well before I feel any sympathy I'm going to have to see some concrete evidence.

This quote from a Palestinian Lib Dem MP really resonated

Perhaps out of respect for the victims and their families?

It's traumatic enough for me, I wouldn't want to know these women personally and see the painful and degrading way they were slaughtered.

There are some despicable posts on here.

Are you talking about the same footage?
https://twitter.com/Dr_logicaI/status/1722693142183297475

This, it’s hard enough to read about

@VeronicaM27 you don’t need to see it

@VeronicaM27

Why are you gaslighting rape, here, just what is your angle?

@VeronicaM27 With due respect, I applaud the idea of standing up for Palestinians, but I am not sure your posts are helping because asking for evidence of rapes does make you seem rather unhinged and a conspiracy theorist (even if you believe what you are saying to be helpful or accurate) and I believe this kind of posting delegitimises the Palestinian cause in the eyes of others. It also does make pro-Palestinian posters question your motives as well.

Kindly, I do think there are better ways to debate against the Israeli govt's war in more nuanced and grown up ways.

@EasternStandard
You're right. I don't need to see it. Nor do I want to see it. I'm just asking if it actually exists and no one seems to be able to answer that.

The reporting is very one-sided. Don't forget that Hamas killed 14 hundred Israelies in their unprovoked attack - even though the media seems to have forgotten this. Also don't forget that the Palestinians voted Hamas in as their 'government' and that their whole purpose is the complete destruction of Israel. If Israel doesn't fight back, it will be destroyed.

Antisemitism is alive and well it appears.

All of this.

Raz Cohen, a Nova festival survivor, describes quite a few things, but specifically the rapes (from 01:40 here)

To quote: "The terrorists... people from Gaza... raped girls. And after they raped them, they killed them - murdered them with knives... Or the opposite: killed, and after they raped - did that. They laughed. They always laughed. I can't forget how they laughed on the - in this situation."

There are plenty more firsthand accounts like this on YouTube, if you can be arsed to search for e.g. "nova festival survivor."

But no doubt you will dismiss this guy as a paid actor in service to the evil Israeli plan to wipe out all Palestinians just because they feel like it and the world won't care (eerrrrmmmm....?!??!).

I did wonder at first why he corrected himself to "people from Gaza" but it's now clear, sadly.

s

Everyone has been able to answer it with enormous patience and tolerance for what I hope is your naivety (giving you the benefit of the doubt).

The fact that you apparently have no answers to the questions you're asking says more about the questions you're asking and the agenda you are determined to pursue.

I don't believe it's naivety. There is a clear strategy on this board. The Jewish community are being harassed left, right and centre. Much of the harassment is transparent, out there in the real world. On this board, it is insidious.

@Popolop Thank you for your perspective.

Regarding my motives, it seems to me that Israel are using a lot of lies and propaganda to justify their slaughtering of Palestinians. Are we supposed to just believe it without any evidence?

I do see your point though about arguing about whether women were raped or not being in poor taste so I will leave it at that and not bring it up again.

Yes; just to point out that I am not Israeli or Jewish and have no "skin in the game" as it were. Thank fuck, because I would hate to be more traumatised than I already am at a distance.