Page 11 | Justifying the rape of women

armchairactivist1 · 2023-10-25T17:35:10+00:00

Something I keep coming back to.. for the people whose sympathies lie with the Palestinians and think an eye for an eye and that Hamas have been pushed to act the way they have, how do you justify the brutal rape of women by Hamas? **Post edited by MNHQ**

thedevilsgift · 26/10/2023 17:48

SadTimes96 · 26/10/2023 17:18

I am not minimising the killing of innocent civilians. It is absolutely awful.

I will say that the British journalist who watched the footage has not commented on any footage of rape. She has given a short video on the skynews article of what she had seen.

https://news.sky.com/video/israel-gaza-war-boys-witness-fathers-murder-in-raw-footage-screened-by-israel-of-hamas-attack-12991530

As per the BBC article - The IDF has released a document that they say was from Hamas and in that there are instructions to rape. As per the article, there was no footage of rape.

The footage and instructions have not been verified but personally I believe the footage is real.

It is not about what I think happened it is about what has happened. If you aren't using reputable news sources what are you using? No reputable news source has confirmed that women were raped and there is no footage of this. They have only confirmed that certain Israeli ministers have made claims.

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My response should have been to this post, so here it is again. And btw, there are plenty of eyewitness accounts of the evidence of women being raped:

You think the Israeli government should have released footage of its citizens being raped to international journalists? And because they didn't it never happened? Jesus, your thinking is depraved.

Here's a thing. Maybe the Israeli government has more respect for those women than you clearly think they are worth.

Original poster

armchairactivist1 · 26/10/2023 17:49

@SadTimes96 you're talking about footage and reports but really, what do you think happened to the poor girl in the bloodied grey joggers? You really don't need forensic reports to comprehend what happened to her.

If someone in 'real life' told you something atrocious and abhorrent had happened to them would you first say I'm not going to get upset or feel sad about this until I know if it's true or not and if and only then I will feel sad for you? If it turned out they were lying, then absolutely shame on them but if that's your reaction then shame on you. We can't control other people's actions but we are in charge of our own reactions

OP posts:

jeffgoldblum · 26/10/2023 17:59

@Maireas , I avoided the images as much as I could, just the descriptions were enough for me!!
But I still can't stop thinking about it!

Maireas · 26/10/2023 18:04

jeffgoldblum · 26/10/2023 17:59

@Maireas , I avoided the images as much as I could, just the descriptions were enough for me!!
But I still can't stop thinking about it!

I wish I'd not seen it.

jeffgoldblum · 26/10/2023 18:26

Sympathy @Maireas , I can imagine how awful it must have been, that's why I can't understand why people want to see actual pictures or videos as proof!

Maireas · 26/10/2023 18:28

jeffgoldblum · 26/10/2023 18:26

Sympathy @Maireas , I can imagine how awful it must have been, that's why I can't understand why people want to see actual pictures or videos as proof!

I know, I saw it because I clicked on the BBC news report when it all emerged. Later on they blurred the images out, fortunately.

jeffgoldblum · 26/10/2023 18:33

Luckily for me I was reading my phone and had my glasses perched on top of my head so when the news came on I couldn't see it!!!
Never been thankful for my myopia before.

Fancylike · 26/10/2023 18:45

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Alcemeg · 26/10/2023 18:49

ticketstickets · 26/10/2023 17:33

wow, on this basis literally no rapist would ever be covicted ever. Of course the below reuters article doesn't count since it was Israeli forensic teams. Of course we know every single Israeli is 100% compliant with the Israeli government and will tell whatever lies they are asked to say. Being very sarcastic there. Have you ever actually met any Israelis????

Honestly, I don't know what to make of the posters being taken down in London. I'm not sure what purpose they serve being posted around Tube stations anyway, it's not like we're going to bump into one of the hostages at St Pancras Station...? (I wish it was so simple!) I can understand pro-Palestine folk feeling it's just goady. But again, maybe I'm missing something.

I really can't beleive people are justifying this behaviour. What sick sick people. What is 'goady' about trying every single thing you can do to get your son, daughter, parent or spouse returned.

I guess if your family member was kidnapped you would just yawn and not do anything in case you 'goaded' the kidnappers friends and relatives???

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-forensic-teams-describe-signs-torture-abuse-2023-10-15/

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Sorry, I sincerely didn't mean to cause offence. I'm aghast at these denials of the unfathomable atrocities committed against Israel.

Maireas · 26/10/2023 18:53

Me too, @Alcemeg . These are some of the worst posts I've seen on this topic.

Alcemeg · 26/10/2023 18:55

EasternStandard · 26/10/2023 17:26

Your posts are making me feel a bit ill. Why so reluctant to believe women?

On Saturday 7 October, Israel – especially civilians in 21 rural communities and cities near the Gaza border – woke up to the worst nightmare since the establishment of the State of Israel 75 years ago. Hamas armed terrorists murdered, tortured, and raped innocent civilians, men, women, elderly people, children, and babies. More than 1,300 people were killed, and at least 222 people, including women and children, were taken hostage. Among them is my dear friend Vivian Silver of Kibbutz Be’eri, a longtime peace activist. As part of that well-planned vicious attack on Israel, on that Saturday morning, Hamas terrorists also raided an outdoor rave near Kibbutz Be’eri and shot and killed 200 people, who came from around the country for a celebration of love and peace.

As the days passed, the scale of the atrocities and war crimes perpetrated by Hamas continued to unfold. Young women who were at the outdoor rave reported having witnessed brutal rapes of women. These testimonies were corroborated by horrific images published by Hamas on social media the very same day.

It is something of a theme so much so an open letter has signed here

An open letter signed by dozens of women’s groups from Israel and around the world criticises the failure of UN Women to speak out about the Hamas Pogrom of 7 October. ‘It is unthinkable that a UN agency responsible for women’s rights ignores the abduction of women, babies, girls, children and men from their homes, committing war crimes against women and children, and the murder of over a thousand innocent civilians.’ Hamutal Gouri, one of the signatories, explains the deep sense of betrayal felt by Jewish women.

https://fathomjournal.org/opinion-why-dont-israeli-women-count-for-un-women/

You can’t feel ok with being part of the problem surely?

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I'm so sorry about your friend Vivian. I can't stop thinking about those poor hostages. The survivors of the festival and the kibbutz attacks, as well as their extended families and friends, must be deeply traumatized for life. I feel traumatized by it from a safe distance. 💕

EasternStandard · 26/10/2023 18:55

We’re really seeing the ugly side on social media atm

That deleted post an example

EasternStandard · 26/10/2023 18:56

Alcemeg · 26/10/2023 18:55

I'm so sorry about your friend Vivian. I can't stop thinking about those poor hostages. The survivors of the festival and the kibbutz attacks, as well as their extended families and friends, must be deeply traumatized for life. I feel traumatized by it from a safe distance. 💕

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Ah my mistake I wasn’t clear. It’s a blog I posted from the link

Fancylike · 26/10/2023 19:04

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EasterIssland · 26/10/2023 19:09

50 hostages have been killed by the air strike is being known today

Sugaristheenemy · 26/10/2023 19:11

BTW, if you're referring to the 7 Oct attacks here... do you understand what "collateral damage" means?

Can you explain why you keep insisting on minimising what happened? I'm just a bit baffled

Palestinian civilians who are killed have been referred to as “collateral damage” so it’s probably a reference to that.
Where it came from originally I don’t know. I assume the Israeli government.

Alcemeg · 26/10/2023 19:13

EasternStandard · 26/10/2023 18:56

Ah my mistake I wasn’t clear. It’s a blog I posted from the link

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Ah ! Reading on my phone is like doing keyhole surgery 😊 Still, the lack of a direct connection doesn't diminish my horror and empathy. X

Alcemeg · 26/10/2023 19:14

Sugaristheenemy · 26/10/2023 19:11

BTW, if you're referring to the 7 Oct attacks here... do you understand what "collateral damage" means?

Can you explain why you keep insisting on minimising what happened? I'm just a bit baffled

Palestinian civilians who are killed have been referred to as “collateral damage” so it’s probably a reference to that.
Where it came from originally I don’t know. I assume the Israeli government.

Do you understand the concepts of war, collateral damage, terrorism and human shields?

feralunderclass · 26/10/2023 19:15

Alcemeg · 26/10/2023 14:28

Speaking for myself, even if I had personally suffered at the hands of Israel, I'd disown anyone who could act with that level of sickening barbarity.

Clearly, many folk feel differently.

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This is a sick joke? Hypothetically imagining yourself and your dc being tortured by Israel, then claiming you'd disown anyone celebrating a revenge attack? Of course you would! 🙄 Because when you've been tortured, seen your kids dragged away from your home in the night, don't know what has happened to them for 3 months, then get refused a permit to visit them, you aren't going to be the voice of reason. Do you think anyone Westerner (who hasn't suffered nearly as much) wishes good on anyone who has abused/murdered their child? No, they say they want them to rot in hell 99% of the time.

Alcemeg · 26/10/2023 19:18

feralunderclass · 26/10/2023 19:15

This is a sick joke? Hypothetically imagining yourself and your dc being tortured by Israel, then claiming you'd disown anyone celebrating a revenge attack? Of course you would! 🙄 Because when you've been tortured, seen your kids dragged away from your home in the night, don't know what has happened to them for 3 months, then get refused a permit to visit them, you aren't going to be the voice of reason. Do you think anyone Westerner (who hasn't suffered nearly as much) wishes good on anyone who has abused/murdered their child? No, they say they want them to rot in hell 99% of the time.

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Well, there's a revenge attack, and then there's 7 October. For me, that crosses a very important line.

Sugaristheenemy · 26/10/2023 19:20

Do you understand the concepts of war, collateral damage, terrorism and human shields

Do you understand the concept of hypocrisy ?

Alcemeg · 26/10/2023 19:55

Sugaristheenemy · 26/10/2023 19:20

Do you understand the concepts of war, collateral damage, terrorism and human shields

Do you understand the concept of hypocrisy ?

I understand my own moral boundaries and refuse to accept that Z=X just because someone else thinks it does.

Sugaristheenemy · 26/10/2023 19:57

I understand my own moral boundaries and refuse to accept that Z=X just because someone else thinks it does

Oh cool. Me to.

Alcemeg · 26/10/2023 20:16

7 October is a whole new ballgame. Given that Hamas have been fucking over the Gazans for 17 years, why not unite against a common enemy?

Gruntsandgroans · 26/10/2023 21:13

EsmaCannonball · 25/10/2023 19:38

I wonder if the people who demand that Israel, above all, be proportionate would be happier if fewer Palestinians were killed but were killed in the exact same manner as Hamas killed the Israelis?

Disclaimer: don't read if you are sensitive to violent descriptions

I know I probably should get a life but this comment has been playing on me a lot today. Do you actually know how people are dying in Gaza? They are dying horrifically too. There was a boy, his whole face blown off, his lower body blown off and he was alive. I don't think I'll ever get that image out of my head. He was alive and they don't have proper medical supplies to treat him. Proper pain killers, anaesthetics, they are using vinegar on wounds and this young boy was alive with half of his body and his face gone. Gazans aren't dying like boom gone. They are dying from having limbs blown off then slowly bleeding to death alone under rubble. They are dying from being burnt alive.

I understand that Hamas inflicted horrific injuries on people and it absolutely isn't a competition but this comment made me think, do you know? Do you what is happening in Gaza? Just how horrifically people, men, women and children are dying? In a lot of cases it isn't clean and it isn't quick. Like I said I know I need to get a life but I keep thinking about that comment and thinking about the boy without his mum with no face and no lower body who was still alive and the people who think that this is somehow a preferreble way to die.