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Conflict in the Middle East

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Justifying the rape of women

988 replies

armchairactivist1 · 25/10/2023 18:35

Something I keep coming back to.. for the people whose sympathies lie with the Palestinians and think an eye for an eye and that Hamas have been pushed to act the way they have, how do you justify the brutal rape of women by Hamas?
Post edited by MNHQ

OP posts:
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Maireas · 26/10/2023 17:00

jeffgoldblum · 26/10/2023 16:57

Why was my post deleted??!!!

Evening, Jeff. I think sometimes when you quote a post which then gets deleted, your post also gets deleted. You've not broken a guideline!

jeffgoldblum · 26/10/2023 17:01

I know @Maireas but others weren't!!

Maireas · 26/10/2023 17:03

You're right! Ask MNHQ

SadTimes96 · 26/10/2023 17:05

EasternStandard · 26/10/2023 16:40

The footage has been shown to journalists who have commented on it

There are plenty of posts detailing the atrocities

This minimising is very off.

Have British news journalists commented that they have seen footage of this? Correct me if I am wrong, I have only looked the Sky news and channel 4 news articles. I don't read anything that isn't a reputable news source anymore.

Ofcourse it is always awful when innocent civilians have been killed on both sides. But the details are important because propagandist language like "40 beheaded babies" does further add fuel to the fire. So far there is no evidence according to sky news and the IDF have not confirmed this... so, I am not going to get upset about something that hasn't been verified. Just like the statement of women being raped.

I will however get upset at the fact that innocent civilians and children have been murdered on both sides.

I am trying to fact-check as much as possible and I don't think that is wrong.

SomeCatFromJapan · 26/10/2023 17:06

Tbh I found it strange that so many celebrated the murder of Israeli civilians because my first thought was “omg that’s horrific, what kind of monsters do that” second thought “Gaza is going to get flattened those poor people” 3rd thought “why are those dickheads celebrating, Gazans are about to die”.

This was my exact reaction too. I suspect that there are some, positioned as pro-Palestine, who are in fact simply anti-Israel and welcome the anger against Israel of high Palestinian civilian casualties.

Maireas · 26/10/2023 17:07

So, @SadTimes96 - just to clarify - you don't think that there's any evidence that women have been raped?.

saffronsoup · 26/10/2023 17:14

I just very unfortunately came across a TikTok compilation of Jewish women mocking and making fun of Palestinian women and children who had died and putting on ‘rubble make-up’ .

SadTimes96 · 26/10/2023 17:18

SomeCatFromJapan · 26/10/2023 17:07

I am not minimising the killing of innocent civilians. It is absolutely awful.

I will say that the British journalist who watched the footage has not commented on any footage of rape. She has given a short video on the skynews article of what she had seen.

https://news.sky.com/video/israel-gaza-war-boys-witness-fathers-murder-in-raw-footage-screened-by-israel-of-hamas-attack-12991530

As per the BBC article - The IDF has released a document that they say was from Hamas and in that there are instructions to rape. As per the article, there was no footage of rape.

The footage and instructions have not been verified but personally I believe the footage is real.

It is not about what I think happened it is about what has happened. If you aren't using reputable news sources what are you using? No reputable news source has confirmed that women were raped and there is no footage of this. They have only confirmed that certain Israeli ministers have made claims.

Israel-Gaza war: Boys witness father's murder in 'raw footage' screened by Israel of Hamas attack

Israel has released new footage taken from body cameras worn by Hamas fighters carrying out their attack on Israel just over two weeks ago. Sky's Deborah Haynes was one of journalists invited to watch the compilation of the bloodshed - which hasn't yet...

https://news.sky.com/video/israel-gaza-war-boys-witness-fathers-murder-in-raw-footage-screened-by-israel-of-hamas-attack-12991530

Maireas · 26/10/2023 17:18

How revolting, @saffronsoup . You really can find so much vile behaviour online. Unfortunately, I think the hatred isn't going to lessen any time soon.

armchairactivist1 · 26/10/2023 17:25

@saffronsoup absolutely sickening

OP posts:
EasternStandard · 26/10/2023 17:26

SadTimes96 · 26/10/2023 17:18

I am not minimising the killing of innocent civilians. It is absolutely awful.

I will say that the British journalist who watched the footage has not commented on any footage of rape. She has given a short video on the skynews article of what she had seen.

https://news.sky.com/video/israel-gaza-war-boys-witness-fathers-murder-in-raw-footage-screened-by-israel-of-hamas-attack-12991530

As per the BBC article - The IDF has released a document that they say was from Hamas and in that there are instructions to rape. As per the article, there was no footage of rape.

The footage and instructions have not been verified but personally I believe the footage is real.

It is not about what I think happened it is about what has happened. If you aren't using reputable news sources what are you using? No reputable news source has confirmed that women were raped and there is no footage of this. They have only confirmed that certain Israeli ministers have made claims.

Edited

Your posts are making me feel a bit ill. Why so reluctant to believe women?

On Saturday 7 October, Israel – especially civilians in 21 rural communities and cities near the Gaza border – woke up to the worst nightmare since the establishment of the State of Israel 75 years ago. Hamas armed terrorists murdered, tortured, and raped innocent civilians, men, women, elderly people, children, and babies. More than 1,300 people were killed, and at least 222 people, including women and children, were taken hostage. Among them is my dear friend Vivian Silver of Kibbutz Be’eri, a longtime peace activist. As part of that well-planned vicious attack on Israel, on that Saturday morning, Hamas terrorists also raided an outdoor rave near Kibbutz Be’eri and shot and killed 200 people, who came from around the country for a celebration of love and peace.

As the days passed, the scale of the atrocities and war crimes perpetrated by Hamas continued to unfold. Young women who were at the outdoor rave reported having witnessed brutal rapes of women. These testimonies were corroborated by horrific images published by Hamas on social media the very same day.

It is something of a theme so much so an open letter has signed here

An open letter signed by dozens of women’s groups from Israel and around the world criticises the failure of UN Women to speak out about the Hamas Pogrom of 7 October. ‘It is unthinkable that a UN agency responsible for women’s rights ignores the abduction of women, babies, girls, children and men from their homes, committing war crimes against women and children, and the murder of over a thousand innocent civilians.’ Hamutal Gouri, one of the signatories, explains the deep sense of betrayal felt by Jewish women.

https://fathomjournal.org/opinion-why-dont-israeli-women-count-for-un-women/

You can’t feel ok with being part of the problem surely?

Opinion | Why Don’t Israeli Women Count for ‘UN Women’?

An open letter signed by dozens of women’s groups from Israel and around the world criticises the failure of UN Women to speak out about the Hamas Pogrom of 7 October. ‘It is unthinkable that a UN...

https://fathomjournal.org/opinion-why-dont-israeli-women-count-for-un-women/

Maireas · 26/10/2023 17:28

Everything that @EasternStandard has posted has been verified. It doesn't matter what side you're on, whether you think the Israeli response was disproportionate, or whatever.
The experience of these women should not be ignored.

jeffgoldblum · 26/10/2023 17:32

And the young girls !!! Do we think they were spared?
If they can burn and torture children then what else would they do!
I can't stand the thought and frankly if anyone has to see it to believe it , shame on you !

ticketstickets · 26/10/2023 17:33

Luckydip1 · 26/10/2023 16:10

This thread suggests Palestinians raped Jews when there is no independent proof.

wow, on this basis literally no rapist would ever be covicted ever. Of course the below reuters article doesn't count since it was Israeli forensic teams. Of course we know every single Israeli is 100% compliant with the Israeli government and will tell whatever lies they are asked to say. Being very sarcastic there. Have you ever actually met any Israelis????

Honestly, I don't know what to make of the posters being taken down in London. I'm not sure what purpose they serve being posted around Tube stations anyway, it's not like we're going to bump into one of the hostages at St Pancras Station...? (I wish it was so simple!) I can understand pro-Palestine folk feeling it's just goady. But again, maybe I'm missing something.

I really can't beleive people are justifying this behaviour. What sick sick people. What is 'goady' about trying every single thing you can do to get your son, daughter, parent or spouse returned.

I guess if your family member was kidnapped you would just yawn and not do anything in case you 'goaded' the kidnappers friends and relatives???

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-forensic-teams-describe-signs-torture-abuse-2023-10-15/

Israeli soldiers inspect the burnt car of a festival-goer at the site of an attack on the Nova Festival by Hamas gunmen from Gaza, in southern Israel, October 13. REUTERS/Amir Cohen

Israeli forensic teams describe signs of torture, abuse

Around 90% of the military dead have been identified and teams are half way through identifying civilians, said Rabbi Israel Weiss, former army chief rabbi. He said many bodies showed signs of torture as well as rape.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-forensic-teams-describe-signs-torture-abuse-2023-10-15

saffronsoup · 26/10/2023 17:33

armchairactivist1 · 26/10/2023 17:25

@saffronsoup absolutely sickening

It is sickening and most in the compilation I had the misfortune of seeing appeared to be quite young but it shows how easily influenced people are to buy into propaganda and dismiss harm and wrong doing when perpetrated by ‘their’ side.

SadTimes96 · 26/10/2023 17:35

EasternStandard · 26/10/2023 17:26

Your posts are making me feel a bit ill. Why so reluctant to believe women?

On Saturday 7 October, Israel – especially civilians in 21 rural communities and cities near the Gaza border – woke up to the worst nightmare since the establishment of the State of Israel 75 years ago. Hamas armed terrorists murdered, tortured, and raped innocent civilians, men, women, elderly people, children, and babies. More than 1,300 people were killed, and at least 222 people, including women and children, were taken hostage. Among them is my dear friend Vivian Silver of Kibbutz Be’eri, a longtime peace activist. As part of that well-planned vicious attack on Israel, on that Saturday morning, Hamas terrorists also raided an outdoor rave near Kibbutz Be’eri and shot and killed 200 people, who came from around the country for a celebration of love and peace.

As the days passed, the scale of the atrocities and war crimes perpetrated by Hamas continued to unfold. Young women who were at the outdoor rave reported having witnessed brutal rapes of women. These testimonies were corroborated by horrific images published by Hamas on social media the very same day.

It is something of a theme so much so an open letter has signed here

An open letter signed by dozens of women’s groups from Israel and around the world criticises the failure of UN Women to speak out about the Hamas Pogrom of 7 October. ‘It is unthinkable that a UN agency responsible for women’s rights ignores the abduction of women, babies, girls, children and men from their homes, committing war crimes against women and children, and the murder of over a thousand innocent civilians.’ Hamutal Gouri, one of the signatories, explains the deep sense of betrayal felt by Jewish women.

https://fathomjournal.org/opinion-why-dont-israeli-women-count-for-un-women/

You can’t feel ok with being part of the problem surely?

I'm sorry I can't read that full article. I am just going to be trusting reputable news outlets. The UK journalists can find out the information and I will take it from them. I am not here to source out who said what and whether it has been verified.

There isn't any footage of the rape and channel 4 fact-check has said it is still investigating these claims.

Sometimes I'll dip into Israeli news and Arab news to get an insight into different opinions but I am not just going to believe something because someone said it. It's not about women, it's just about people in general. People on both sides will ofcourse be bias, showing me a video of an Israeli woman saying something is not proof and showing me a video of a Palestinian woman saying something is not proof.

I also don't know what happened with the hospital in Gaza, it might or might not have happened. It is the same with this, it might not or might not have happened. Right now, I am not going to get angry about something that might or might not have happened.

I will wait for reputable news outlets to respond first.

Maireas · 26/10/2023 17:36

All the more important for the truth to be disseminated.

ticketstickets · 26/10/2023 17:37

saffronsoup · 26/10/2023 17:33

It is sickening and most in the compilation I had the misfortune of seeing appeared to be quite young but it shows how easily influenced people are to buy into propaganda and dismiss harm and wrong doing when perpetrated by ‘their’ side.

thats really horrible. I have lots of Jewish and Israeli friends and have not seen anything like this. A lot of concern and sadness about the loss of life in Gaza but no celebrating.

jeffgoldblum · 26/10/2023 17:41

What about the poor German women who was paraded about naked on a truck ?
I believe this was widely reported, I'm not going to say anymore about what happened to her as it's sickening, and I will definitely not be searching out the headlines as it's too upsetting for me but even me who avoids the news and sm heard and saw it reported.

EasternStandard · 26/10/2023 17:41

SadTimes96 · 26/10/2023 17:35

I'm sorry I can't read that full article. I am just going to be trusting reputable news outlets. The UK journalists can find out the information and I will take it from them. I am not here to source out who said what and whether it has been verified.

There isn't any footage of the rape and channel 4 fact-check has said it is still investigating these claims.

Sometimes I'll dip into Israeli news and Arab news to get an insight into different opinions but I am not just going to believe something because someone said it. It's not about women, it's just about people in general. People on both sides will ofcourse be bias, showing me a video of an Israeli woman saying something is not proof and showing me a video of a Palestinian woman saying something is not proof.

I also don't know what happened with the hospital in Gaza, it might or might not have happened. It is the same with this, it might not or might not have happened. Right now, I am not going to get angry about something that might or might not have happened.

I will wait for reputable news outlets to respond first.

Here you go

https://www.euronews.com/2023/10/21/bodies-still-being-recovered-from-israeli-village-two-weeks-after-hamas-attack

Bodies still being recovered from Israeli village two weeks after Hamas attack

Search and rescue teams find 'mutilated' remains in Be'eri kibbutz

Euronews’ Valerie Gauriat was granted access to Be'eri kibbutz in southern Israel where Hamas killed more than 130 people. In addition, the militant group have been accused of torturing, raping and mutilating some of these victims and others.

https://www.euronews.com/2023/10/21/bodies-still-being-recovered-from-israeli-village-two-weeks-after-hamas-attack

saffronsoup · 26/10/2023 17:44

ticketstickets · 26/10/2023 17:37

thats really horrible. I have lots of Jewish and Israeli friends and have not seen anything like this. A lot of concern and sadness about the loss of life in Gaza but no celebrating.

That was the only video compilation I saw that was mocking or celebrating but I have seen very little care or compassion on other threads or posts. More frustration about what aboutism and why do people keep talking about Palestinians when it is Israeli victims who matter.

thedevilsgift · 26/10/2023 17:44

SadTimes96 · 26/10/2023 17:35

I'm sorry I can't read that full article. I am just going to be trusting reputable news outlets. The UK journalists can find out the information and I will take it from them. I am not here to source out who said what and whether it has been verified.

There isn't any footage of the rape and channel 4 fact-check has said it is still investigating these claims.

Sometimes I'll dip into Israeli news and Arab news to get an insight into different opinions but I am not just going to believe something because someone said it. It's not about women, it's just about people in general. People on both sides will ofcourse be bias, showing me a video of an Israeli woman saying something is not proof and showing me a video of a Palestinian woman saying something is not proof.

I also don't know what happened with the hospital in Gaza, it might or might not have happened. It is the same with this, it might not or might not have happened. Right now, I am not going to get angry about something that might or might not have happened.

I will wait for reputable news outlets to respond first.

You think the Israeli government should have released footage of its citizens being raped to international journalists? And because they didn't it never happened? Jesus, your thinking is depraved.

Here's a thing. Maybe the Israeli government has more respect for those women than you clearly think they are worth.

Maireas · 26/10/2023 17:46

jeffgoldblum · 26/10/2023 17:41

What about the poor German women who was paraded about naked on a truck ?
I believe this was widely reported, I'm not going to say anymore about what happened to her as it's sickening, and I will definitely not be searching out the headlines as it's too upsetting for me but even me who avoids the news and sm heard and saw it reported.

Dear God. Paraded like a hunting trophy for men to spit at. The woman pulled by her hair and shoved in the car, with her bloody hands and joggers. Those images will stay with me.

Maireas · 26/10/2023 17:48

The irony is that she refused to do military service because she didn't agree with it.

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