Be ashamed of yourselves

[Thisworld10]

That’s right be ashamed of yourselves. I come in these threads thinking I’ll read someone saying what’s happening to the people of Palestine is awful but what I end up reading is people saying they brought it on themselves because they elected Hamas.

So, what if they elected Hamas. We elected the Conservative party but they don’t speak for me, they certainly don’t act on behalf of the everyday citizen of this country. Be ashamed of yourselves for not valuing the lives of Palestinians but putting so much value on the lives of Israelis.

be ashamed of yourselves for justifying the ethnic cleansing of over 2 million people because Hamas attacked Israel in early October. Be ashamed of yourselves for standing for genocide in 2023!

be ashamed of yourselves for saying we would never allow the holocaust to happen again yet Palestinians are held in an open air prison. It’s literally been called a concentration camp, with no way in or out and they are being rampaged with bombs, white phosphorus bombs being dropped on them non stop. On Sunday night 400 died because of the bombs, over 2000 children are now dead. Be ashamed of yourselves for justifying their deaths and blaming them for it.

be ashamed of yourselves for condoning the protestors for wanting Palestinians to have a right to live a peaceful existence.

be ashamed for bringing history into justifying the slaughter of so many people. Yes, Palestinians did welcome Israelis into the holy land in the 1940’s, it doesn’t mean they get to die now. Yes, Israel has a right to exist, but that doesn’t mean Palestine doesn’t. Yes, Israel has land grabbed and continues to do so but no one is allowed to say anything. Yes, their is no Hamas in the West Bank but why are the Palestinian still being killed. Why are so many people illegally arrested mainly kids - held for decades in Israel prisons. Are they not hostages? Yea, Israel asked asked the Palestinians to move to the south with 24 hours notice for their ‘safety’ yet they are being killed in the south.

be ashamed if you ask any one who stands to defend the rights of Palestinians if they condemn Hamas. Everyone condemns Hamas. Being pro Palestinian doesn’t mean your pro-Hamas. I also condemn the barbarian acts of genocide committed by Israel. I condemn the open displays of hate for Palestinian people - calling them human animals etc.

Be ashamed if you think it’s so great they are letting a trickle of aid in but no fuel to run hospitals. Electricity ran out last night in the hospital. So many babies reliant in incubators will die as a result. be ashamed if you think it’s okay for world leaders to not call for a ceasefire and instead show 100% support to what Israel
is doing.

no one has the right to hold one life more dearer than another.

you should be ashamed of yourselves for valuing some over others.

Israel has said Hamas killed 1400 but they also admitted that most of these people were killed in the crossfire. So not all by Hamas but by Israel.

Israel most certainly never said that most of the deaths were due to being caught in the crossfire. That is cateorically untrue.
For one thing I'm sure we can all be fairly certain that it wasn't the IDF that carried out mass torture, cable-tied victims together and burned them.

You beg for compassion for Gazans and post emotive links while at the same time utterly dismissing the horror and suffering that prompted the current conflict.

I didn't want to post this

Yes you did.

It's not like any of you are. Someone has to stand up for their rights.

Before you demand people to condemn Hamas why don't you start condemning Israel for their atrocities BEFORE 7/10 that lead to what happened.

It goes without saying innocent lives matter, all innocent lives matter whether they're Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus etc. but what you all seem to be saying is that the lives of Palestians are far lesser than Israel's regardless of their innocence.

In case you hadn't noticed, questions normally end with a question mark.

What the fuck are you talking about?

@ganondoof apologies I thought you were responding to my previous message about answering questions.

But yes I did post it because it needs to be seen

@whatswrongwiththeworldddd
Israel absolutely has never said anything along the lines of them themselves being responsible for the death of most of the 1400 🤦🏻‍♀️ Hamas literally filmed themselves doing it and then bragged about it. They're not denying it so why on earth are you?!

I still don't understand what people expected Israel to do. Everyone keeps going on about how they expect better from a democracy than from terrorists. Fair enough, I do too. It's more complicated than that when it comes to war though. If I'm in a karate competition but my opponent is aiming a loaded gun at me, I would be forced to either accept my inevitable death or I would have to fight back as dirty as they are. You have no choice but to sink to something akin to their level.

I of course realise my analogy is now going to be turned around and used against me to say that actually, Israel is the one fighting dirty. That seems to be everyone's MO on here, using the same words to prove the opposite point. But they're not. They're trying to fight against people who have zero respect for life, because for them life is just the thing that comes before death, which is when they'll be martyred for killing Israelis and Jews. It's an impossible situation.

I don't want any more people displaced, dead or injured. It's absolutely fucking awful. I'm just trying to explain that it really isn't as simple as everyone keeps pretending it is.

I don't have any answers. I just know that Israel isn't as evil as the majority of people on here keep saying they are. You're so in need for Israel to be the bad guy so you can make sense of it all. You want to believe it, so you do. Yes, a refugee camp was bombed. Hamas are saying hostages died as a result. What does that tell you? It tells you Hamas aren't all in the tunnels. They're also still hiding out in the open among civilians. They want civilians to die so they can more easily justify further attacks on Israel. They are sacrificing their own people. They have entered a karate competition with a loaded gun.

@OhHelloTheres you've described very well where I am with the situation too.

Sorry, but gore porn is sick and unnecessary. I'm sure we'd all weep to see what happened to Israelis too (e.g. kibbutzes, Nova festival)... except perhaps the difference being that there would be a vicious opponent present, actively enjoying their pain and seeking to magnify it as much as possible.

What point are you trying to make? That war is ugly? Do you think we need to be shown that?

It wasn't a question.

A question, in English, would be phrased "Did you?"

@OhHelloTheres there's alot to unpack there and I appreciate many of the things you have written.
I'm trying to think of it from your perspective and it can't be nice to come on here and see people whether rationally or irrationally bashing your country.
What Hamas did was the unthinkable and I do believe it was to provoke this specific reaction out of Israel
To get Israel to do the unthinkable in retaliation which I'm sure they knew would go on for alot longer, and cause many many deaths resulting in a global outrage.
To some extent if that was one of their aims then as each day goes by its proving to be working more and more
We have seen just in the last 24 hours of a few countries cutting diplomatic ties with Israel and many denouncing the ongoing attack.

I have lost count on how many threads I have had to point out to people that the Israeli government and its people are not one
Iv condemned Hamas more times than I can count and still had someone asking me today if I do

If I was to focus specifically on the war then I believe that Netanyahu has had his ego severely bruised. It couldn't have come at a worst time for him and he will do anything to show he is the tough guy, I really believe that he will do anything to hold onto his power

I mean the majority of Israelis don't have faith in him with regards to the affairs of Israel and yet we are expected to just have faith that he will give a flying about the innocent civilians in Gaza
He doesn't help himself by some of the comments he makes like 'the children of darkness etc'

I read in the news today that a member of the US Congress said today in a interview that there is no threshold on how many civilians can be killed, this sort of narrative from the west only serves to demonise Israel further

Again as you say there are no easy answers but I do believe there should be some red lines that should not be crossed
Bombing refugee camps is one of them whether Hamas is there or not

There should have been designated safe zones, Israel knows that the innocent have nowhere to go.
They instructed people to move to certain places in the south and then bombed them

Aid should have come in alot quicker and at a much larger scale
Again Israel is the obstacle in allowing aid in as they give the go ahead to how much can go in
What is coming in now is still a drop in the ocean compared to what is needed

They need to stop killing and attacking journalists and their families

They need to stop asking hospitals to evacuate when they know that this will be a death sentence for many patients

The above are just a few points from the top of my head but there are many many more

The right wing government in Israel have said some absolutely horrific things I won't post them again on here as you have seen elsewhere that I have. It is genocidal rhetoric.

Like any other democracy there should be Accountability
I believe the western governments have done Israel a great disservice by fanning the flames of war rather than to try and encourage a measured calculated response. Who will bear the brunt of the outcomes of this war? Israel and Gaza will.
Certainly not the US or UK.

Killing nearly 4000 children is never OK. And they haven't even finished yet. Any decent human being knows there is no justification and it is wrong.

Mass murdering innocent civilians in retaliation to what Hamas did on 7/10 isn't self defence. If it was self defence they'd be going after HAMAS only. If they believed in killing innocent civilians is wrong (it is) then why kill innocent civilians in Palestine? What were there fault in all this?

Not one of you have yet answered my previous questions.

Neither Hamas or Israel have covered themselves in glory. There are no winners in a war - one like this will never end. The figure which sticks with me is that a Palestinian child is dying every 10 minutes.

@Parkingt111 excellent post

I assume you've all by now seen the Hamas interview where he says, among other things, that October 7th was only the beginning, that they'll be going back again and again and again. They openly want to annihilate Israel. Israel needs to fight back before Hamas get a chance to succeed. You can't fight a fair war against someone who says all Gazans are to be martyrs if that's what's needed for them to succeed in getting rid of Israel. Please just try to understand that.

@Parkingt111
I agree that Israel maybe could have done things differently, but I'm not privvy to the intelligence briefings so I really don't know for sure if that's true.

I know people keep saying IDF is targeting journalists but I haven't seen any evidence for it. Just people accusing them of it and then the inevitable social media storm that followed.

The hospitals have been discussed before. They're Hamas hotspots. It's not like Israel are targeting them for fun. Their hands are being forced. In this respect, Hamas are winning. They're getting what they want - for Israel to be widely seen as the bad guy.

I think Netanyahu is a disgraceful human being and I agree with very few things he ever said even before all this started. He doesn't represent the vast majority of Israelis - didn't his party only get something like 23% of the vote or something? I think the world would be a better place if he stepped down. I still think any subsequent PM would still need to continue this war as Hamas need to be gotten rid of once and for all. But maybe they could at least stop the disgusting rhetoric? Maybe they'd stop the increasingly feral settlers in the West Bank? Force them out? Who knows.

I wish the humanitarian side was different. So, so different. I don't know what else to say, really. I mean, I'm someone who thinks buying a puppy or a kitten is incredibly cruel as it's removing a baby from it's mother for absolutely no good reason. I cried when I realised dairy cows aren't allowed to feed their own calves for very long. I'm obviously not going to want Palestinian families torn apart if that's how I feel about animals! And no, I'm not comparing Palestinians to animals. I'm saying no living creature should ever have to go through even the relatively peaceful splitting up a family, let alone a devastatingly violent war tearing them apart. It's devastating. Really, truly devastating. They deserve so much better. They deserve to be treated as humans, not as human shields or some kind of pawn in some sick game. They deserve to live in peace. They deserve to live, not just merely survive like they've been doing under Hamas. Not that they're even doing that anymore.

None of this is ok.

@OhHelloTheres - both Israel and Hamas are the ‘bad guys’. They are fighting a war which will have no winners. It’s a religious and land war going back as far as you can. Both are going to loose support around the world as the humanitarian disaster grows.
The losers are the Palestinians and the Israelis who don’t support Netanyahu.

@OhHelloTheres there has definitely been a target of journalists
Il send you the CPJ link
This is an article from the Times of Israel
Interestingly the four comments it has under it all say the journalists deserved it

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/26-journalists-have-been-killed-in-gaza-since-oct-7-four-were-killed-in-israel-watchdog/

@OhHelloTheres
This is the report published on sky news

@OhHelloTheres
CPJ report
https://cpj.org/2023/11/journalist-casualties-in-the-israel-gaza-conflict/

@OhHelloTheres I appreciate that you are also devastated by what is happening in Gaza
You have a kind heart. It is so so tough

@Parkingt111
None of those are confirmation journalists are being targeted? They all say preliminary investigations etc

@OhHelloTheres as we were saying about Netanyahu before I was quite suprised to see this right now on sky. For Biden to outright say it.
Question is will his successor do a better job or not

Biden for the first time ever has called for a pause although now he's changing what he meant by it
that was only after he was interrupted in his speech by a Jewish Rabbi Jessica Rosenberg who demanded a ceasefire
If you don't want to click on the link then there is a clip on It on the Jewish Voice for peace instagram page

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzH1atuAW3B/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Brave woman. Absolutely right.