I’m not saying I’m pro Israel, however..:

[Lelophants]

Surely most people can understand that if Israel was Great Britain and Hamas came and massacred children and innocent people in early October, then Great Britain would go to war and absolutely hammer them back? You just have to look at the response to any other war we’ve had. Do you really think the British government would behave perfectly in this situation? Do you think any western nation would do anything else in response to such an attack? I can genuinely see British people screaming in the streets to murder all babies of Hamas if this was the case. (Not saying it’s right!! I just don’t think we would be better in any way!!)

Personally I find this a really complicated conflict due to the deep history and I feel deeply sorry for civilians on each side.

Equating Hamas with ISIS is outright propaganda anyway. It's easier to throw such loaded equivalencies around, because then you can hate the other side easier and power the blood lust.

Absolutely do not look up why Hamas came about. That might break the spell.

Stop comparing Hamas to the IRA.

'Footage of senior Hamas official Mahmoud al-Zahar calling for world domination has resurfaced online.

“We believe in what our Prophet Muhammad said: “Allah drew the ends of the world near one another for my sake, and I have seen its eastern and western ends. The dominion of my nation would reach those ends that have been drawn near me," Zahar said in the video that was published on MEMRI TV in December of 2022,

“The entire 510 million square kilometers of Planet Earth will come under [a system] where there is no injustice, no oppression, no Zionism, no treacherous Christianity and no killings and crimes like those being committed against the Palestinians, and against the Arabs in all the Arab countries, in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and other countries," he said.'

WATCH: Israel is only the first target, warns Hamas commander - The Jerusalem Post (jpost.com)

Speaking of hatred and powering blood lust, this is the Hamas founding charter:

'the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).'

The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988 (yale.edu)

Are you forgetting the 6 year old Palestinian-American boy who was murdered in the US for being Muslim? He was stabbed to death, his mother just survived her multiple stab wounds.

The “ongoing Middle Eastern conflict involving Hamas and the Israelis” was why the boy and his mother – who also suffered more than a dozen stab wounds but survived – were targeted, according to the Will County Sheriff’s Office. (CNN)

I’m Jewish and I understand the Palestinians resentment at Israeli occupation. I support neither Hamas or Netanyahu. I’m sure most Israelis and Palestinians would both like to live in peace and safety without extremist lunatics deciding their fates.

Hamas’s attack was barbaric. The Israeli response is predictable. Neither leader want peace. I feel heartbroken for the innocents on both sides.

@ChickHenLittle
Yes people do like to bring up that one singular example to counter the past two decades of terrorism in the west

Agreed.
I was listening to the LBC the other day and a caller suggested to "just give the Palestinians the land they want"...
Lots and lots of people simply don't understand this conflict and offer naive solutions.
It's kind of good to know that so many people wish for a peaceful resolution and are genuinely concerned about innocent civilians. It's good on them.
Unfortunately it's not how it works in this conflict and people should really educate themselves better before trying to judge something they don't understand, let alone attending rallies.

I don't think anyone "likes" to bring up a child being murdered.

Two decades of terrorism, specifically by supporters of Palestine? Perhaps you confused Palestine with Hamas. Then, it wasn't Hamas that carried out every attack. I believe the Taliban and ISIS have taken responsibility for most?
Those groups are all as bad as each other, but what makes you think Palestine should be responsible for all of their actions?

I get what you’re saying but just because some individuals in Britain may want to act in a bloodthirsty and disproportionate way, or even the government - it doesn’t mean it’s right.

US and Britain are hardly the moral beacons of the world when it comes to promoting peace hence they’re encouraging Israel.

What makes you think people attending rallies don't understand or need educating?

@ChickHenLittle
Hamas, taliban, ISIS, who cares? The name is meaningless, they all want the same thing. And Palestinians actively voted for this?

Still no reasoning as to why you think Palestine should take responsibility for all of those groups?
No, they did not actively vote for them, the Taliban and ISIS weren't up for election in Palestine.

Hamas hide among their civilian population. Palestinians voted them in (though were maybe not 100% expecting the resultant One Party State).

Hamas did the possibly most stupid thing ever, tho I believe they thought they'd meet more resistance; they didn't, thus ran horrifically, brutally, evidenced amok. I suspect there were Hamas leaders who thought 'Oh feck' at what the unchecked Palestinians chose to do, person by person.

I feel sorrow for the Palestinians who are now dying beneath anonymous concrete slabs.

But their leadership brought this war to their door.

I cannot blame Israel for saying 'times's up' on Hamas- who, let's face it, have on record decided that all Palestinians are delighted to be martyrs.

Hamas started this.

Hamas coujd release the hostages to find out if the destruction of Gaza stops?

I bet it would.

Palestinians need better leadership. Ones who understand compromise, who are not hell bent on the destruction of Israel, who they may have gathered, have more powerful friends. The surrounding countries do not want Palestinian refugees.

Ask yourself why.

The Palestinians have not voted for seventeen years.
They haven't actively voted for anything.

*The surrounding countries do not want Palestinian refugees.

Ask yourself why.*

Concern that they will end up displaced with nowhere to call home, some concern that Hamas may infiltrate.
This has been brought up countless times, as recently as earlier today. There are countless articles with reputable, confirmed sources citing why. Here's one (The Independent):

“All historical precedent points to the fact that when Palestinians are forced to leave Palestinian territory, they are not allowed to return back,” said H.A. Hellyer, a senior associate fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. “Egypt doesn’t want to be complicit in ethnic cleansing in Gaza.”
Arab countries’ fears have only been stoked by the rise under Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of hard-right parties that talk in positive terms about removing Palestinians. Since the Hamas attack, the rhetoric has become less restrained, with some right-wing politicians and media commentators calling for the military to raze Gaza and drive out its inhabitants. One lawmaker said Israel should carry out a “new Nakba” on Gaza.

Good to know we have a poster who knows more than the Egyptian government itself. I'm definitely not cringing here. At all.

I think a bit of extra context is needed here. We've had several terror attacks but there's never been any proof they were sponsored by a state. On the whole they've been people who've been radicalised in some way.

However if another country/state sent hundreds of attackers and slaughtered everyone at Glastonbury and then moved through nearby towns killing, kidnapping and torturing anyone in their path, it absolutely would be a declaration of war. And we'd probably do our best to pull the US into it too.

And frankly if you were the parent or family member of someone who'd been murdered, you'd probably want them to do it too.

Are you saying all palestinians are Hamas? Are you really saying that over a thousand Palestinian children who have been killed are mugs? That the 5000 murdered are all mugs who chose their fate?

@ChickHenLittle are you saying that the only Palestinians to ever commit terror attacks have belonged to Hamas?

@ChickHenLittle
They voted for Hamas, which like ISIS and the taliban, explicitly want the destruction of western values of which Israel is a symbol.
And I'm supposed to go to "free Palestine" marches and fundraising events to show support for a nation that actively chose a death party for itself? What absolute mugs we are in the west, Hamas must be incredulous.
So what if they haven't had a vote in 17 years? Why is that? Why dont they do something about that, or can't they? Is that Israel’s fault too? Or are the Palestinians complicit in their own subjugation by their own people?

If the Palestinians can't actively choose a non terrorist government for themselves then why hasn't that been the big humanitarian focus for the past few decades? Maybe they are actually happy with Hamas.

You cannot get a job in the Gaza strip if you aren't a Hamas member. You get your legs broken if you protest against Hamas.

This is like saying I am responsible for the actions of Liz Truss, Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak because I happen to live in England. And the authorities here don't even break my legs when I speak out against them.

To be honest I find it baffling that supposedly intelligent world leaders still go straight to bombing the fuck out of a whole country when something like this happens. Historically there's very few examples where literally creating the very conditions that would cause people to turn to extremism has turned out particularly well.

The extremism predates the existence of Israel, is the reason why the Jews, and the Christians of Lebanon, wanted and were given their own states, and is the reason why the Arabs opposed it. The Jews were second class citizens, dhimmis, for centuries, under a religious supremacist system following the Islamic conquest.

It was only ended, and only formally so, about 1860 when the Europeans forced the Ottomans to drop it after they lost the Crimean war. When that Empire collapsed, the Arabs opposed every single proposal to give the Jews or Lebanese Christians a single square inch of the land. You can't voluntarily hand over lands conquered by Islam to non-muslim sovereign rule.

That extremism, over centuries, had nothing whatsoever to do with any negative conditions which the conquering class or the eventual Islamic majority, had suffered. Non-muslims to this day are second class citizens in Qatar, which funds Hamas, and in other Islamic states. That is extremist religious supremacism and it has never gone anywhere, despite western influence and coercion watering down its consequences over time.