Hostages

[TakeMe2Insanity]

This is running on Al Jazeera and others - apparently Israel refused to take back two hostages.

https://english.alarabiya.net/amp/News/middle-east/2023/10/21/Hamas-says-intended-to-release-two-hostages-but-Israel-refused-to-receive-them

@ScrollingLeaves I did actually also say that.

It must be terrible for them and their families to hear the news today. It must be enough to make people almost die from stress. I cannot imagine what it must be like to have had hope of a release for some hostages dashed by more delay.

This is all hell on earth.

So sorry, please ignore that link. I am writing on my telephone and it re-pasted from my fingers and I hadn’t noticed.

😓 no words. Absolutely none.

@ScrollingLeaves I agree. I not knowing must be agony. I follow a hostage family page on Instagram and it's so distressing. Especially when talking about the children orphaned or alone.

Oh, that makes it perfectly alright that they kidnapped people then. 🙄

Yep I am sure if someone kidnapped that posters child. They didn't know if their child was dead or alive. However unknown to anybody the kidnapper took the child to Disneyland before returning it a month later. The poster would insist that all charges and criticism about the kidnapper were dismissed.

That post is a month old and presented completely out of context

Why do that?

Out of context anyway,

but the poster never said that ‘makes everything all right’,

I bet all the families of the hostages are praying that their terrorised, captured loved ones, living though unimaginable torment , are being treated in any way “well” - rather than tortured and starved and left without medical treatment if they need it.

Of course it does not make everything all right. If it is true, it just makes it a tiny bit better than it might have been.

@ScrollingLeaves they had her husband. It doesn't make it ok but understandable. Let's hope he is still alive.

From memory about that post it was about the old lady that shook her hamas excorts hand.

Yes she did say in the interview that all her basic needs were met once in the secret chamber

However she was also punched when the grabbed kidnapped her and that injury was very painful.

After being thrown over the back of a motorbike, as she was driven to the tunnels men on either side they drove past hit her with sticks.

Then the little old was made to walk through what felt to her like miles of tunnels to a large chamber. All whilst still sporting the injury from getting punched to the ground.

If you watch the whole interview of her and her daughter this is what they say. People have deliberately in bad faith shared an edited video. The full video is available from most media websites.

She is a polite old lady that thanks anyone that shows any kindness. Quite rightly too. However Hamas did not treat her well. A few individuals treated her OK.

The Guardian reporting on what could possibly be the delay according to a egyptian source. I hope it gets resolved quickly as its so so close. I'm hoping we see better news soon

Senior Egyptian officials said Hamas failed to formally sign off on the mechanism for the hostages’ release, and didn’t provide Israel with a specific list of around a dozen or more to be freed first.
Israel for its part delayed the handover of a list of the first group of Palestinian prisoners it plans to free, according to officials familiar with the talks.
Among the technical issues gumming up the process is access by the International Committee of the Red Cross to the released hostages, and negotiations over the exit through which they will leave Gaza, according to officials familiar with the situation.
Israel had wanted the hostages to be handed over to the Red Cross before their transfer to Israel, while Hamas is now asking for them to be given directly to Egypt, the officials said. Israel has also asked that the Red Cross be given access to those hostages who remain in Gaza after the first exchange, something Hamas hasn’t agreed to.

@Parkingt111 so it's a 3-4-1 swap but also Israel will still have no idea how many hostages are there or even alive?

I guess proportionality is a one-way street.

(I'm being a bit glib after seeing multiple posters comment on the lack of proportionality in Israel's response in Gaza. I don't actually think 3-4-1 is a problem, although do think not letting the ICRC check up on all the hostages is a major issue)

@OhHelloTheres I agree
So I read yesterday that Hamas said that they weren't informed of the ICRC being allowed to see the hostages as part of the deal.
I personally think its in their own favour if it is allowed as it will put greater pressure on a ceasefire to release the remaining hostages. Their reluctance however could be for a number of reasons and some not so great which I won't speculate on right now
I do hope it is allowed though

@Parkingt111 a bit worrying isn't it

I’m guessing, amongst other things, Hamas may find it logistically difficult to allow others to see all the hostages.
It would mean either
they are all brought out into the open
or
the ICRC are given access to them wherever they are
and hence the location of their whereabouts, and Hamas, would be compromised.

@KingofIthaca it could possibly be that
Does anyone know if the ceasefire includes the Israeli soldiers retreating out of Gaza for the four days?

@Efacsen it is very tense and nerve wracking especially for the families

No withdrawal of troops

Only stopping aerial surveillance - and bombing

No they will not be retreating. Israel has not agreed to this.
They have agreed to no flyovers over Northern Gaza

Will there be a truce in the West Bank at the same time?

Nope

And Palestinians in the West Bank have been told that they can't celebrate the release of prisoners

@Efacsen Many thanks, there does seem to be an invasion going on there too, with attacks by the army and settlers. Really there should be a pause there too, otherwise it might just get ramped up there while they have a break from Gaza, They probably need humanitarian aid to get in there too, I should think.

@Parkingt111 it disgusts me that Hamas are quibbling over allowing the Red Cross to see the hostages that are left behind. I am thinking of those who were injured- hersh goldberg-polin for example.
It is psychological Cruelty to not let families know whether they are alive and how they are.
It makes me wonder if they know where they are? If they are in the country? The pain of the children leaving only surviving parents behind :/

@ketchup07070 Israel's deal is with Hamas though...

Update from sky news
Israel and Hamas truce will start at 7am, says Qatar
The temporary ceasefire between Israel and Hamas will begin at 7am tomorrow, Qatar's foreign ministry has announced.