Hostages

[TakeMe2Insanity]

This is running on Al Jazeera and others - apparently Israel refused to take back two hostages.

https://english.alarabiya.net/amp/News/middle-east/2023/10/21/Hamas-says-intended-to-release-two-hostages-but-Israel-refused-to-receive-them

@3and2ready if true that is terrible
There's also the issue on how a confession is taken from the children
Many human rights group have flagged up issues that the children are placed in solitary confinement for many days without any legal access

@3and2ready actually it's what al jezeera says as that's the age of criminal responsibility.

This article is from a few years ago but it highlights the unjust way these arrests are often carried out

At the beginning, nearly all deny the accusations. Most say they are threatened; some report physical violence. Verbal abuse – "You're a dog, a son of a whore" – is common. Many are exhausted from sleep deprivation. Day after day they are fettered to the chair, then returned to solitary confinement. In the end, many sign confessions that they later say were coerced.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jan/22/palestinian-children-detained-jail-israel

It’s not like kids aren’t being arrested as common practice there as we speak:
how old are these kids:

https://x.com/dina_alawadi/status/1719041222499520714?s=46&t=eApyQwxkdiGUWJcyEmIdVA

https://x.com/resist_05/status/1727503516695183861?s=46&t=eApyQwxkdiGUWJcyEmIdVA

https://x.com/qudsnen/status/1696509396430278946?s=46&t=eApyQwxkdiGUWJcyEmIdVA

only army in the world that goes full on fighting kids and women. And disabled people. For some reason they love brutality against disabled people. I’ve seen so many videos it’s soul destroying.
The UK army would never be caught doing this. They would handle children and woman and the disabled as humanly as possible.

Look at the x links. And tell me that can be justified. Israel is supposed to be a democracy like us. If our army did this the public would bring the country to a stand still.

Bbc is reporting from the Qataris that the delay should be cleared soon and it was more for logistical reasons so that's some good news

I am not saying it's right but children do commit crimes and we (in this country) try children and send them to prison.
It's unpalatable but children are used as decoys, messengers, couriers and sadly suicide bombers by all political parties in Palestine including fatah, Islamic jihad and Hamas. Not heard of 'pay for slay' they incentivise terrorism.

@3and2ready the British army would never be caught doing this? Do you actually believe that? It's funny you use the word 'caught'

I don't think it's justified in any stretch. I only have to think about three year old Abigail who hopefully will be released tomorrow.... watched both her parents murdered in front of her and then someone picked her up and took her hostage.
Three.....
No children are winning in this conflict.

@Stomacharmeleon does she have other family in Israel? I hope she is one of the children released first aswell as the mother who is thought to have given birth

I am not saying it's right but children do commit crimes and we (in this country) try children and send them to prison.

This is completely untrue - younger children are remanded to secure children's homes and older ones to Youth Offender Iinstitutes neither of which are prisons

@Stomacharmeleon

@EasterIssland I think that semantics. Prisons in everything but name. I had the joy of visiting a forensic unit several dozen times.

@Efacsen sorry that was meant for you. Apologies

@Puzzledandpissedoff she is on the list and I believe so yes.

Never be caught doing this meaning they’d rather quit the army or be dead than seen doing something as barbaric and cowardly as this to children. It’s not what you expect the army to do. They are there to protect the country and civilians. We don’t need fully grown men beating and arresting little kids 🤮

No it's not 'semantics'

I've visited secure childrens homes and YOI as part of my job - nothing like adult prisons which i have also visited on a professional basis

Just admit you're wrong

But it’s the manner they are targeted and dragged off. These are idf soldiers. Adult men vs children. Is that how we arrest the children in the U.K.? Scare the shit out of them and traumatise them. Stick them in prison for just being a certain race/ethnicity/religion? Must look at those links. Its unbearable.

@Efacsen ok I will rephrase and then it may explain why I said it...
From the experience of my child being in a forensic unit it's very much like a prison. Locked down, invasive searches, lack of visitors, guards, not allowed to leave for prescribed time, cells.
That's what I mean.

I think to move forward understanding of what Hamas did to the people of Palestine as well as to the people of Israel. This person knows more than any of us here can possibly understand and is worth a watch. He was that 'indoctrinated child'...

Why has Israel imprisoned so many children?

If you asked a class of 18 year-olds to think analytically about this, and leave their emotions out of it, what answers would you get?

To stop them immediately from doing what they're doing.
To stop them from doing it again tomorrow.
To remove them from parents who are egging them on.
Because they want to frighten the children into not doing it again.
Because some of the soldiers want to posture and swagger and enjoy intimidating.
(Do I think that Israeli soldiers are the only ones who have ever behaved like this and the British couldn't possibly? Er, no. All that testosterone in uniform with a military weapon to hand....).
Because it will cost the country to keep them in prison but they will be a useful bargaining power in the future, if need be, especially if you live in a country which is attacked now and again. If you've got detainees of any kind, they might become useful pawns in the bargain.

There will be loads of other answers too.

You say that you find it hard to believe that thousands of imprisoned women are members of Hamas. Do you think it's possible that SOME of those women are members of Hamas or sympathisers of Hamas?

I am not trying to be an apologist for anyone but I don't see any of it as 100% anything, 'all innocent or or guilty' for instance, and I try, sometimes, to step away and think what reasons any of them have for what they do.
Edited to add this paragraph.

@XRAYTHIS the children we were discussing about above whom many were tortured and imprisoned were from the occupied West bank.
Not Gaza
And in any case this treatment predates Hamas
I can also post many videos of former IDF soldiers who talk about how they were indoctrinated to treat the Palestinians in a unlawful and inhumane way
Does it justify what is happening?

Lots of videos of IDF soldiers exposing how they were indoctrinated by the Israeli government to commit atrocities against Palestinian civilians. Children, women, the elderly were all slaughtered because they were told to kill all Muslim Arabs. All you have to do is search idf soldiers expose truth on YouTube or X and many interviews come up.

Children are murdered or imprisoned for one reason only that’s to prevent the uprising of the next Hamas generation. This is a stupid war where Israel wants to destroy Hamas, but by killing Palestinians they are creating future Hamas members. And so the cycle goes on and on and on. What else are the children going to do once you’ve slaughtered their entire family in front of their very eyes? They will want to be a part of any movement that targets the Israeli government. They don’t care if it’s wrong or right, or whether they are hurting innocent civilians in the process, because as far as they are concerned they did no wrong either but were still attacked.

Israel needs to protect the Palestine civilians and families. If they are seen doing this then they are less likely to create a future generation that wants to destroy them in the way they were destroyed. Target Hamas, but protect the civilians.

Can we get back on the topic of the thread. The hostages.

Stomacharmeleon· Today 10:40
I am not saying it's right but children do commit crimes and we (in this country) try children and send them to prison

No, you are mistaken here.

These Palestinian children are sent to Military prison by military people outside of the law.

They are not given a trial.

They do not have lawyers or their parents with them.

Israeli child criminals are not treated this way.

British child criminals are not treated thus way.

There are certain conventions and protocols followed for child criminals in the West which are not followed by Israel in the case of the Palestinians.

Furthermore, these children are often not guilty in the first place but illegally tortured to gain false confessions.

Please consider watching the Australian documentary film which I linked above with more information about it( thank you to the other poster who showed it on another thread).
‘Stone Cold Justice’