Hostages

[TakeMe2Insanity]

This is running on Al Jazeera and others - apparently Israel refused to take back two hostages.

https://english.alarabiya.net/amp/News/middle-east/2023/10/21/Hamas-says-intended-to-release-two-hostages-but-Israel-refused-to-receive-them

@Efacsen that's a bit harsh. You don't have to be all or nothing it's not that simplistic. I understand what they are saying. Of course it's better that hostages are released but I would understand Israel's trepidation.

@OhHelloTheres yes I understand. I think this time there is alot more involvement by different groups and countries who seem determined to make it work.
The last time the four hostages were released it seems their welfare was checked on prior to it and I'm hopeful that the same will happen again this time.
The US and Qatar seem to have a big hand and both sides must be under pressure knowing there is no margin for error if it is to be successful

This man wants to sabotage the negotiations because he doesn't want to compromise on anything

If you really want to see these poor children freed - there's also a woman who is a few days post-partum with a tiny newborn - then taking a rigid/no compromise line based on previous negotiations that you and he don't feel went in Israels favour then the outcome will be them staying in captivity

All negotiations involve risk and compromise - no party can say I want it all my own way because it went badly in the past

Have you seen his statement and his behaviour in the Knesset yesterday? Not what any serious person would call 'trepidation' - it's a blatant full on attempt to sabotage the negotiations at the 11th hour

So yes I'll be harsh

Did I say that's what I want though? Or did I try to give examples of why Israel might be reluctant?

I don't understand how you can't see there is some sense in what I'm saying, even if you don't agree with the "all or nothing" approach. I don't agree with it either at this point! It doesn't mean I can't see why others are extremely hesitant. They know they'll be made to release even more prisoners, possibly including terrorists involved in the recent massacre, in order to possibly get some more hostages back at a later date. At this point they don't even know if they'll be getting them back dead or alive.

@OhHelloTheres this is a long thread - do you think these 'misgivings' haven't been discussed before?

And as I say all negotiations involve risk and compromise and rigidly sticking to one position always has the same outcome

'

Reports say Hamas wants Israeli air operation to end as part of any truce
BBC

Unconfirmed Israeli media reports say Hamas is demanding that Israel stop flying over Gaza for the duration of any truce.

Walla news website says Hamas leader in Gaza, Yahya Sinwar, wants flights suspended over all of Gaza, while the YNet news site says Hamas is seeking to limit flights to six hours a day over northern Gaza only.

As well as fighter planes, Israel operates an unknown number of drones over Gaza for both attack and surveillance, including for identifying targets and threats to its ground forces. Pausing aerial operations would hamper Israel's intelligence gathering, including monitoring hostage releases.

If true, such a demand to completely halt flights could be a sticking point for Israel, and in the event of an agreement, difficult to verify compliance.

@Efacsen of course everyone wants the children, vulnerable and elderly at home. I really hope it works l. I agree that concessions have to be made.

I feel so sorry for the families whose loved ones won't get to leave. I hope whatever negotiations are decided allowing the red
Cross in to see all of them and ascertaining life is agreed. So the psychological torment could be stopped (even only temporarily) for all the families.

@Stomacharmeleon Netanyahu has meetings scheduled with the war cabinet and government early this evening who have to agree any deal - so hopefully not much longer for rhe long suffering families of the 30 children and teenagers and others who might be be released

Fingers-crossed

A series of meetings has been announced In Israel this evening regarding the latest developments surrounding the hostage release.
It seems like it's the final stages

@Efacsen snaps
Just read it

@Parkingt111 fingers crossed it's been such a long time

@Efacsen BBC is reporting from Mark Regev that If a deal is approved by Israel then it could be within hours
I think there's alot of people right now who are holding their breaths.
It definitely has been too long

@Stomacharmeleon and @Parkingt111 here's the exact timings

The war cabinet will meet at 6pm (4pm GMT), the security cabinet at 7pm (5pm GMT) and the full government at 8pm (6pm GMT).

Israel’s Religious Zionist Party, led by finance minister Bezalel Smotrich, has said it cannot agree to a proposed deal for the release of some of the hostages held in Gaza.

Does this mean they veto the deal? Does anyone know?

Ben-Gvir says no to captive release deal

Same here, power to veto deal??

Don't think they can veto anything, no. Looks like it's a majority vote wins situation

@OhHelloTheres thank you - that's hopeful

According to the BBC - IDF, Mossad and Shin Bet are also in favour of the deal

@Efacsen I am watching the channel 4 news. It's so hard to think Hamas don't have all of them. Crime families, other groups, fundamentalists... hostages must be terrified.

That Don't even know who is there. They need to let the Red Cross in and they need to be accounted for.

I hope the far right don't try and block if. I can understand their concerns but this is the right thing.

@Stomacharmeleon according to Haaretz the 50 hostages are thought to comprise - 30 children, 8 mothers and 12 other women

@Efacsen are all the thai nationals that are being released part of the 50 or separate?

I hope so too

@Parkingt111 releasing the Thai hostages seems to be a separate deal from the 50 women and children

Just seen this further good news.
As part of the deal the Red Cross will be able to visit unreleased hostages and provide medical aid if it goes through
Which means it will provide clarity on which other hostages are alive (hopefully all) and also on their condition

Israel is telling its ministers that the Red Cross will be allowed to visit unreleased hostages in Gaza and provide medical assistance as apart of possible hostage deal.