Hostages

[TakeMe2Insanity]

This is running on Al Jazeera and others - apparently Israel refused to take back two hostages.

https://english.alarabiya.net/amp/News/middle-east/2023/10/21/Hamas-says-intended-to-release-two-hostages-but-Israel-refused-to-receive-them

I think both options are risky aren't they. if you negotiate for release of hostages, then they'll keep taking them, f you don't the war goes on and you kill more people plus your own are likely tortured and killed.... and it goes round and round. Someone has to compromise....

@Iwantcakeeveryday hmm I see what you mean but there are children involved. Child hostages. Surely a negotiation for their release should be done.
But yes there's not much information on what the families are proposing or what they want from the government

@StarbucksSmarterSister rSister · Yesterday 22:49
Today I saw somebody talking about a 13 year old "held hostage" by Israel and it turned out to be someone who'd gone to jail for stabbing a woman as she walked her kids to school.

I have read about that 13 year old boy too.

No he hadn’t done the stabbing. That’s what he was accused of.

Then he was ‘questioned’ without his parents or a lawyer and imprisoned with adults.

Now aged 20 he has been kept in prison in terrible conditions since that arrest, and has effectively lost his mind.

I’ll look for the report.

@StarbucksSmarterSister

Here is a report about the 13 year old boy you had misinformation about in regard to him stabbing a woman walking her children to school.

He did not do it.

“Israel/ OPT: Palestinian prisoner arrested as a child, Ahmad Manasra, still in prison despite worsening mental health - Amnesty International”

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/06/israel-opt-palestinian-prisoner-arrested-as-a-child-ahmad-manasra-still-in-prison-despite-worsening-mental-health/

“Manasra, still in prison despite worsening mental health”

“Israeli authorities must immediately release Ahmad Manasra, a 20-year-old Palestinian man who has developed serious mental health problems since his arrest as a child seven years ago, Amnesty International said today. On Sunday 19 June a parole board will review Ahmad Manasra’s case.

In 2015 Israeli authorities arrested Ahmad Manasra, who was then 13 years old, and harshly interrogated and threatened him without a lawyer present.

He has been in prison ever since, and in solitary confinement since early November 2021. Ahmad has been diagnosed with schizophrenia, is suffering from psychotic delusions, and is severely depressed with suicidal thoughts. On Wednesday he was moved to the Ramleh prison hospital in central Israel due to his deteriorating mental state.

“Ahmad Manasra has been subjected to a catalogue of injustices by the Israeli authorities, including deleterious effects of incarceration on his development and prolonged solitary confinement. He endured ill-treatment during interrogations, which were conducted without his parents or lawyers’ presence, and was denied the right to a fair trial. He should have been released a long time ago, yet he remains in unnecessary suffering in Israeli prisons,” said Heba Morayef, Amnesty International’s Regional Director for the Middle East and North Africa.

“Pending his release from detention, he must be given access to adequate medical care and never be placed in solitary confinement again. Allegations of torture and other human rights violations that Ahmad has suffered must be effectively and transparently investigated.”

Ahmad Manasra was arrested on 12 October 2015 in relation to the stabbing and injury of two Israeli citizens in Pisgat Zeev, an illegal Israeli settlement in occupied East Jerusalem. Despite being found by the courts not to have participated in the stabbings, he was convicted of attempted murder in 2016 in proceedings marred by allegations of torture, and despite the fact that he was below the minimum age of criminal responsibility at the time.

On 19 June 2022, Ramleh Magistrate’s Court will review Ahmad Manasra’s eligibility for early release under Israel’s Parole Law of 2001.

Israel, a party to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC), has obligations to ensure that depriving children of their liberty is “used only as a measure of last resort and for the shortest appropriate period of time”.

Prolonged solitary confinement
Ahmad Manasra has been held in prolonged solitary confinement since the beginning of November 2021, in violation of the absolute prohibition of torture and other cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment or punishment. The Israel Prison Service asked to renew Ahmad’s solitary confinement for a further six months on 17 April 2022. A hearing that was scheduled to be held on 15 June 2022 with regards to his solitary confinement was postponed to a later date.

Ahmad Manasra’s mental health worsened during his incarceration. In October 2021 an independent Israeli clinical psychologist working with Physicians for Human Rights – Israel (PHRI) diagnosed him with severe psychiatric conditions, and stated these had developed since his incarceration.
Ahmad Manasra’s parents said in February 2022 that their son had been diagnosed with schizophrenia, is suffering from psychotic delusions, and is severely depressed with suicidal thoughts.

His lawyer, Khaled Zabarqa, told Amnesty International:
“We have asked the Israel Prison Service to release Ahmad into home and community care as a matter of urgency because there is a real danger to his life. The prison doctors themselves recognized as much in their report on 13 June which led to his transfer from the prison cell to the prison hospital.”

Israel/ OPT: Palestinian prisoner arrested as a child, Ahmad Manasra, still in prison despite worsening mental health - Amnesty International

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/06/israel-opt-palestinian-prisoner-arrested-as-a-child-ahmad-manasra-still-in-prison-despite-worsening-mental-health/

And put children in prison with adults. These can be Israeli criminal adults. Imagine what happens to the Palestinian children in these prisons.

Sorry, that Ahmad amnesty article pasted by mistake. Please ignore.

My point was separate from that case.

It was a general one about children being imprisoned with adults.

OK thanks. The child I read about was said to have stabbed a woman so is it a different case since reports say Ahmed was accused of stabbing a man and a child. I'll try and find the post I saw.

If Ahmed is schizophrenic he should definitely be in hospital.

I agree children shouldn't be in an adult prison.

The age of criminal responsibility here is 10 but they are kept in youth facilities until 18, then transferred.

@StarbucksSmarterSister · Today 13:59

“ScrollingLeaves · Today 13:37

StarbucksSmarterSister

Here is a report about the 13 year old boy you had misinformation about in regard to him stabbing a woman walking her children to school.

He did not do it.

“Israel/ OPT: Palestinian prisoner arrested as a child, Ahmad Manasra, still in prison despite worsening mental health - Amnesty International”

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/06/israel-opt-palestinian-prisoner-arrested-as-a-child-ahmad-manasra-still-in-prison-despite-worsening-mental-health/

“Manasra, still in prison despite worsening mental health”

“Israeli authorities must immediately release Ahmad Manasra, a 20-year-old Palestinian man who has developed serious mental health problems since his arrest as a child seven years ago, Amnesty International said today. On Sunday 19 June a parole board will review Ahmad Manasra’s case.

In 2015 Israeli authorities arrested Ahmad Manasra, who was then 13 years old, and harshly interrogated and threatened him without a lawyer present.

He has been in prison ever since, and in solitary confinement since early November 2021. Ahmad has been diagnosed with schizophrenia, is suffering from psychotic delusions, and is severely depressed with suicidal thoughts. On Wednesday he was moved to the Ramleh prison hospital in central Israel due to his deteriorating mental state.

“Ahmad Manasra has been subjected to a catalogue of injustices by the Israeli authorities, including deleterious effects of incarceration on his development and prolonged solitary confinement. He endured ill-treatment during interrogations, which were conducted without his parents or lawyers’ presence, and was denied the right to a fair trial. He should have been released a long time ago, yet he remains in unnecessary suffering in Israeli prisons,” said Heba Morayef, Amnesty International’s Regional Director for the Middle East and North Africa.

“Pending his release from detention, he must be given access to adequate medical care and never be placed in solitary confinement again. Allegations of torture and other human rights violations that Ahmad has suffered must be effectively and transparently investigated.”

Ahmad Manasra was arrested on 12 October 2015 in relation to the stabbing and injury of two Israeli citizens in Pisgat Zeev, an illegal Israeli settlement in occupied East Jerusalem. Despite being found by the courts not to have participated in the stabbings, he was convicted of attempted murder in 2016 in proceedings marred by allegations of torture, and despite the fact that he was below the minimum age of criminal responsibility at the time.

On 19 June 2022, Ramleh Magistrate’s Court will review Ahmad Manasra’s eligibility for early release under Israel’s Parole Law of 2001.

Israel, a party to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC), has obligations to ensure that depriving children of their liberty is “used only as a measure of last resort and for the shortest appropriate period of time”.

Prolonged solitary confinement
Ahmad Manasra has been held in prolonged solitary confinement since the beginning of November 2021, in violation of the absolute prohibition of torture and other cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment or punishment. The Israel Prison Service asked to renew Ahmad’s solitary confinement for a further six months on 17 April 2022. A hearing that was scheduled to be held on 15 June 2022 with regards to his solitary confinement was postponed to a later date.

Ahmad Manasra’s mental health worsened during his incarceration. In October 2021 an independent Israeli clinical psychologist working with Physicians for Human Rights – Israel (PHRI) diagnosed him with severe psychiatric conditions, and stated these had developed since his incarceration.
Ahmad Manasra’s parents said in February 2022 that their son had been diagnosed with schizophrenia, is suffering from psychotic delusions, and is severely depressed with suicidal thoughts.

His lawyer, Khaled Zabarqa, told Amnesty International:
“We have asked the Israel Prison Service to release Ahmad into home and community care as a matter of urgency because there is a real danger to his life. The prison doctors themselves recognized as much in their report on 13 June which led to his transfer from the prison cell to the prison hospital.”

OK thanks. The child I read about was said to have stabbed a woman so is it a different case since reports say Ahmed was accused of stabbing a man and a child. I'll try and find the post I saw.

Thank you,

If Ahmed is schizophrenic he should definitely be in hospital.

He was most likely made mad by being imprisoned aged 13 for something he did not do, and interrogated and kept under appalling conditions.

The Israeli state regime is evidently not as European/Western ok as O had assumed.

This is a Guardian article about Palestinian children in Israeli prisons and the effects.

Hardly a way to build a peaceful future.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jan/22/palestinian-children-detained-jail-israel

@ScrollingLeaves that's sheer emotive conjecture. Do you know anything about schizophrenia? They aren't 'made mad' it's so offensive.

Schizophrenia remains mysterious in origin. There are a variety of factors which may cause the illness, including biological and environmental, but it can also be triggered by frequent or severe trauma in childhood. Trauma itself can lead to other mental health conditions such as psychosis and PTSD. It does sound as if this young man may have several conditions, which is actually quite common. 'Made mad' is inappropriate, but severe trauma can trigger or cause severe mental illness,

Sorry, that was for @ScrollingLeaves and @Stomacharmeleon I'll say no more, as it's not the topic of the thread, but have worked with people suffering this condition and it remains an area of professional interest..

It was interesting reading the article about the hostages families walking to Netanyahu's house and what they would like at the Moment.

Most realise that swapping of hostages for prisoners is a reality but want it for all.

They are also angry that despite repeated requests Hamas will not allow the Red Cross or the UN to do welfare checks.

Yehudit Weiss 65 body recovered from a building near Al Shifa hospital and returned to Israel yesterday

Hopefully there will be better news about the other hostages soon tho' fear that will not be the case

IDF says it has retrieved body of soldier taken hostage by Hamas

The Israeli military said on Friday it retrieved the body of a soldier, Noa Marciano, who had been held captive by Palestinian militant group Hamas in a building near Gaza’s Al Shifa hospital.

The Israeli military on Tuesday confirmed the death of the soldier after Hamas issued a video of her alive followed by images of what the Palestinian faction said was her body after she was killed in an Israeli airstrike on 9 November.

May her memory be blessed

May her memory be blessed

The father of the little girl that was originally thought dead has done another interview

She has now turned 9 years old whilst a captive of Hamas. If she is still alive. Poor little lamb and her family have been through so much already.

I pray she is well and safe.
You know normally when we see children taken as hostage, they are sometimes released for a ransom. Can something like that not be tried? Is that something that is done in war?
Just trying to think of alternatives as nothing else has seemed to have worked so far

Or a reward as an incentive for anyone who can provide more information on where they are being hidden
They can be given a new identity and a new life elsewhere in the world so nobody can know who it was
Surely there must be more that can be done
Even all the politicians criticise first and then mention hostages as an after thought

I think in the past paying for hostages release was more common. However these days most countries see it as encouraging future hostages taking. I mean it is terrible for those taken and their families. However it protects more citizens in the long run. The idea being there is no incentive to snatch innocent citizens or tourists etc

I think the same is felt about prisoner swapping in general

I hear most officials think the majority of hostages are probably dead already. So that is part of the issue. Hamas has not provided much proof of people still being allowed. They won't let the UN or red cross do a welfare check which has happened before. So that isn't a good sign.

It would be very dangerous to negotiate with kidnappers and terrorists, it would incentivise them to do it again. Yes, its awful for them and their families, but it would mean Hamas would keep terrorising and kidnapping if they attempted to negotiate with them and swap with prisoners they have.

Incentivise

That was the word I couldn't remember earlier. I am getting old.

Unconfirmed as of yet I think but Hamas has apparently released footage of an elderly hostage shown first very ill but speaking, and then deceased. Source is Gaza Report on X.

Might be Alex Danzig.